I LOVE 'Em!! J'Dez Underkilts

[JDEZ]

Hey Ron, how do you think the fabric would react (curling or fraying, etc.) if you were to run a slit up the front and back of each thigh, effectively turning it into four almost seperate peices?

Iolaus, we can make the underkilt concept with side cuts (as suggested by several folks on this forum). Since we are using 100% cotton, the edges may curl a bit if not ironed. We can possibly prevent the vertical edge curling by installing binding material. It would increase cost a bit, but would make a real quality finished garment. One possible configuration that is under consideration is the following:



Another option is to do what some have suggested in making a basic loincloth garment. Or even to do something modular as suggested by Cavscout. I found an interesting article on such a garment made in Japan. Interesting read - Gives some history and discusses current market growth: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20050603f1.htm

As for Bear's comments, I am in agreement with his position on the need to maintain a separation from the cross-dressing community. It would be more difficult to gain public acceptance of kilts, sarongs, and the like if they were associated with specific sub-cultures. We do not desire to cater to these markets either. And I have so much as stated so on the Tom's Cafe forum where I have suggested that there were other places on the Internet more appropriate for such things.

My wife and I have traveled to many parts of the world and have had the fortune to experience some foreign cultures that enjoy the same freedom as the Scots with their respective non-bifurcated garments. They are not cross-dressers or transvestites. (Although we have seen some amusing sights in our travels - but that's a story for another day) I would no further walk up to a burly Somoan and tell him he was wearing a girly skirt, than I would to a heavy fisted Scotsman. -I am sure that there is an unpleasant tropical translation for the Glasgow kiss.

My point is that my wife and I happen to enjoy warm tropical environments. This was the influence in developing some of our products. I also like learning about other cultures and time periods. The Scots were, of course, not the only culture to wear non-bifurcated garments. There are many cultures that now wear (or have historically worn) non-bifurcated garments. The middle east, Thailand, Polynesia, Africa, and even ancient Greece and Rome all have interesting and practical applications of clothing for men and women throughout the ages. I would like to join other forums too like "xMarkstheTahitian.com" or the "TogaCafe.com" but I cant seem to find them.

I also like to experiment with combining and modernizing ideas. Some will work, some will not. But I do want to state for the record: we are not about making products for cross-dressers. I do not have any interest in serving that market. We are about making comfortable clothing for normal people - predominately for warm weather and exercise/beach/spa/resort applications. I realize that our current product line does not necessarily relate to this forum. (and my interpretation of "normal" might be a bit skewed to the adventurous and non-intimidated types). But since others have often mention our products, I figured I better comment on what we are trying to do. The one thing that some of you traditional kilt wearers might appreciate about our products is that they might make traditional kilts seem a bit more acceptable to the average joe public.

-- Dave

[Graham]

I can't understand why this matter should be so controversial.
This product is clearly what it claims to be, an underkilt, not a kilt.
I would have thought that it would especially appeal to those who advocate going regimental since it takes care of the main reason in my opinion for wearing underpants - hygiene!!

The other advantage of this product is insulation. While this is not an issue for me, it doesn't get cold enough here, but for our friends in Norway, Finland, Canada....it could turn a coolish PV kilt into a very warm kilt.

I'm not sure if I would wear one, but full marks for innovation, whether it's needed or not depends on the individual and their situation.

As far as the other products on J'Dez's website, well they are well named - mock kilts, but they are not kilts, but as long as they are not promoted here, I don't have a problem.

[clancelt]

Last post from J'Dez was very good, I see his point. I don't see this as such a big deal. I don't like the idea, but I won't hold that against anyone who does. I was already involved in a thread about tartans that is a lot like this one. Funny someone would defend the UK (which I still don't buy as a kilt, yet I still like them) but not J'Dez's product line.

I would not wear a product marketed for men that looks like a skirt, but that is just my taste. I also like women with dark hair over blondes.

I could see his underkilt serving a function, not for me though. I have never had the issues that the underkilt is marketed to solve. Now on the same note, I never thought I would wear spandex either. Yet in competetion guess what we all wear under our kilts? So you can never say never ;)

(In all honesty, it's more for the crowds protection)

[Raphael]

I can see people will want some sort of undergarment for their denim kilts. Hell, I can never go regimental with my UK workman's. But since there is no previous attempt to produce a unbifurcated undergarment for men, it is easy to relate J'dez's Underkilt as a slip for men.

I can understand Bear's rant as he is afraid that somembers may turn xmarks into a site for the freestylers. How can you guys not understand that? There are members of this site who have ventured into the freestyle realm after they discovered the comfort factor in wearing unbifuracted garment. So far, they have kept their other passions to themselves and not promoting them in this kilt site.

Bear's fear is a realistic one. Although Hank and his Mod Squad can and will regulate the subjects and ban members, but we really don't want the flood gate open to the people who want to discuss freestyle issues. Bear only wanted to prevent this from happening.

I am not saying J'Dez's presence is going to attract freestylers, but who knows. For those who are not familiar with Tom's Cafe, there are a lot of people who have loose definition of the kilt. They will refer pleated plaid skirts as kilts and they are very militant about their clause to change the public view on what kilts are. They will argue women skirts are kilts if they are worn by men.

Let's work hard to keep this site for kilts only.

[Mike1]

And everybody wonders why the Kilt Review section was so controversial.

Guys, guys, guys - Ron posted about a kilt accessory he purchased. Read the review for what it is and make your determination to purchase (or not) based on what you read. Either you like the idea behind a given product and you want to try it, or you don't like the idea.

Is it really necessary for all of this to crop up, every time somebody mentions a new product?

How about this - If you have something constructive to add to the original review, then add it. If you are simply adding fuel to the fire, then cease and desist.

Easy-peasy, eh?

<checking my watch to see how long it will take for this thread to be locked>

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Wow, you guys stayed up late on this one. Glad I went to bed when I did.

Anyway, some good posts and and I think much more rational and calm thant when this kind of topic has come up on other threads. After reviewing this and thinking about it (and the fact that it was below 40 degrees this am), I think that I am going to have to order at least one for reasons of warmth. Will post my own thoughts when I receive it.

On a related note, when JDez first posted about this product, there were one or two others who mentioned ordering one. Anybody else received theirs and have any comments to make, pro or con?

[Iolaus]

Aw heck, just when we were starting to have fun, the grown-ups came in. ;)

[Riverkilt]

Yawn, just up myself...

Iolaus, think Dave answered the sliting question best...I could only guess.

Graham, thanks buddy, I wish I had your eloquence.

Realize this morning that I'm just flat enthused about the product itself because it meets a long unmet need for me. There have been other threads about developing such a product without the side conerns. I guess because we were focused on the product.

I was hopeful when I ordered. Fearful when it took longer than expected to arrive (Dave has since explained why), and joyful when it arrived and I tried it and field tested it. I love the dang things.

I see the point about the board purity too. Was so "up" about this new product I also posted on the UK board, the Wearinothekilt board, the Kilt Review board, and the (gasp) IMFF board. So far, haven't seen any controversy on the other four boards...in fact, little interest at all...a yawner.

One way to enforce boundaries is to maintain them with vigor...i.e. "The price of Kilting is eternal vigilance." Bear's certainly helped us do that.

No matter all the other issues, bottom line for me, Dave has developed and marketed something I've been looking for, it works, the value is there - solid quality at a fair price.

Will my lady giggle if I'm wearing one when she unbuckles my kilt? We'll see, she visits this weekend...

Ron