I LOVE 'Em!! J'Dez Underkilts

**Graham** · 26th October 05, 03:00 AM

I can't understand why this matter should be so controversial.
This product is clearly what it claims to be, an underkilt, not a kilt.
I would have thought that it would especially appeal to those who advocate going regimental since it takes care of the main reason in my opinion for wearing underpants - hygiene!!

The other advantage of this product is insulation. While this is not an issue for me, it doesn't get cold enough here, but for our friends in Norway, Finland, Canada....it could turn a coolish PV kilt into a very warm kilt.

I'm not sure if I would wear one, but full marks for innovation, whether it's needed or not depends on the individual and their situation.

As far as the other products on J'Dez's website, well they are well named - mock kilts, but they are not kilts, but as long as they are not promoted here, I don't have a problem.

**clancelt** · 26th October 05, 04:09 AM

Last post from J'Dez was very good, I see his point. I don't see this as such a big deal. I don't like the idea, but I won't hold that against anyone who does. I was already involved in a thread about tartans that is a lot like this one. Funny someone would defend the UK (which I still don't buy as a kilt, yet I still like them) but not J'Dez's product line.

I would not wear a product marketed for men that looks like a skirt, but that is just my taste. I also like women with dark hair over blondes.

I could see his underkilt serving a function, not for me though. I have never had the issues that the underkilt is marketed to solve. Now on the same note, I never thought I would wear spandex either. Yet in competetion guess what we all wear under our kilts? So you can never say never ;)

(In all honesty, it's more for the crowds protection)

**Raphael** · 26th October 05, 05:09 AM

I can see people will want some sort of undergarment for their denim kilts. Hell, I can never go regimental with my UK workman's. But since there is no previous attempt to produce a unbifurcated undergarment for men, it is easy to relate J'dez's Underkilt as a slip for men.

I can understand Bear's rant as he is afraid that somembers may turn xmarks into a site for the freestylers. How can you guys not understand that? There are members of this site who have ventured into the freestyle realm after they discovered the comfort factor in wearing unbifuracted garment. So far, they have kept their other passions to themselves and not promoting them in this kilt site.

Bear's fear is a realistic one. Although Hank and his Mod Squad can and will regulate the subjects and ban members, but we really don't want the flood gate open to the people who want to discuss freestyle issues. Bear only wanted to prevent this from happening.

I am not saying J'Dez's presence is going to attract freestylers, but who knows. For those who are not familiar with Tom's Cafe, there are a lot of people who have loose definition of the kilt. They will refer pleated plaid skirts as kilts and they are very militant about their clause to change the public view on what kilts are. They will argue women skirts are kilts if they are worn by men.

Let's work hard to keep this site for kilts only.

**Mike1** · 26th October 05, 05:29 AM

And everybody wonders why the Kilt Review section was so controversial.

Guys, guys, guys - Ron posted about a kilt accessory he purchased. Read the review for what it is and make your determination to purchase (or not) based on what you read. Either you like the idea behind a given product and you want to try it, or you don't like the idea.

Is it really necessary for all of this to crop up, every time somebody mentions a new product?

How about this - If you have something constructive to add to the original review, then add it. If you are simply adding fuel to the fire, then cease and desist.

Easy-peasy, eh?

<checking my watch to see how long it will take for this thread to be locked>

**KiltedCodeWarrior** · 26th October 05, 07:24 AM

Wow, you guys stayed up late on this one. Glad I went to bed when I did.

Anyway, some good posts and and I think much more rational and calm thant when this kind of topic has come up on other threads. After reviewing this and thinking about it (and the fact that it was below 40 degrees this am), I think that I am going to have to order at least one for reasons of warmth. Will post my own thoughts when I receive it.

On a related note, when JDez first posted about this product, there were one or two others who mentioned ordering one. Anybody else received theirs and have any comments to make, pro or con?

**Iolaus** · 26th October 05, 07:32 AM

Aw heck, just when we were starting to have fun, the grown-ups came in. ;)

**Riverkilt** · 26th October 05, 08:08 AM

Yawn, just up myself...

Iolaus, think Dave answered the sliting question best...I could only guess.

Graham, thanks buddy, I wish I had your eloquence.

Realize this morning that I'm just flat enthused about the product itself because it meets a long unmet need for me. There have been other threads about developing such a product without the side conerns. I guess because we were focused on the product.

I was hopeful when I ordered. Fearful when it took longer than expected to arrive (Dave has since explained why), and joyful when it arrived and I tried it and field tested it. I love the dang things.

I see the point about the board purity too. Was so "up" about this new product I also posted on the UK board, the Wearinothekilt board, the Kilt Review board, and the (gasp) IMFF board. So far, haven't seen any controversy on the other four boards...in fact, little interest at all...a yawner.

One way to enforce boundaries is to maintain them with vigor...i.e. "The price of Kilting is eternal vigilance." Bear's certainly helped us do that.

No matter all the other issues, bottom line for me, Dave has developed and marketed something I've been looking for, it works, the value is there - solid quality at a fair price.

Will my lady giggle if I'm wearing one when she unbuckles my kilt? We'll see, she visits this weekend...

Ron

**Colin** · 26th October 05, 09:23 AM

Personally would rather just wear underwear than to put on a slip (call it an underkilt if you like, but it's still a slip). The majority of traditional kilts I have seen all have a cloth liner attached to the back anyway, so I am not sure why you would need any more of a liner, but that's just me.

Alot of people have mentioned the threads at Tom's but have not seen them, so here they are:
http://www.tomscafe.org/forums/showt...?threadid=8180
http://www.tomscafe.org/forums/showt...?threadid=8215

I was still visiting Tom's when all the ***** went down, and it is starting to look familiar. Bear is not over reacting, as quite a few of us watched a good site turn into a joke. While you are over there checking out the threads listed above, read up on the high heels, the body hair removal, and the new "kilt" for sale at the GAP in the women's section.

Personally I think the use of the word KILT being used to sell products which are most definetely not kilts comes down to a lack of respect for a culture and it's customs. In many parts of North America the desire for a deal has over ridden our sense of decency. Why would you pay $500 for a kilt from Scotland when Walmart has something close for under $20 and people won't know the difference? Well you wouldn't unless you had respect for what the kilt stood for. How many times have we seen people from the UK tell us not to buy the $50 knock off kilts only fit for hanging on a wall, and yet the North Americans don't see anything wrong with it? It's a lack of respect through a lack of education. How can we as kilt wearers educate people and expect to be taken seriously if the general public is being told that these:
http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/ca...d=prod22660147
and these: (yes the GUYS at Tom's are buying them and toting them as "real" kilts)
http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do...730&pid=325932
http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do...730&pid=325932
are being sold to the general public as "kilts"? If men's skirts are ever going to become a viable market, they need to creat their own path and history and stopping trying to sneak past under our kilts.

Just my 2 bits

Oh, and I could be wrong, but I seem to remember threads about sarongs either being moved or deleted because they had nothing to do with kilts, but that was a long time ago so I don't remember the exact details.

(*** Notice I didn't just pick on products from J'DEZ)