Personal Experience?

[Jewddha]

Thanks all, it's always good for me to get peoples thoughts, even if it does give me more thinking to do (though that's not neccessarily a bad thing).

[GMan]

I can see boh sides of this. I am a strong believer in education. However without knowledge of the basics, it is just an expense. In my field (architecture) knowledge of carpentary will get someone extremely far. I did learn a lot in college as far as social interaction so in that regard I am glad that I went.

Some of the smartest people I know are the ones who have worked their way through school by working part time and going to school part time. I worked in my Uncle's construction company while going to school.

When you learn a trade and have a degree, you are definetly more marketable. I do know many carpentars that have college degrees, and I do know many business managers who are also great tradesman.

[Colin]

So I am slated to graduate high school come June '06, and a big part of the year is applying to post-secondary (College/University) schools and the like. One of the most likely options on my list at present is to go to the local college (tradeschool) and try to get my ELT (out of the options available, electrician, carpenter or mechanic are the most appealing).

Now, I had noticed various peoples comments in this thread http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=14889 and it seems there are more than a few tradesmen on these boards. One thing we are encouraged to do is talk to people in the careers we're looking at (big surprise, eh?), so I was wondering what various peoples experiences, thoguhts, opinions and the like are on the trades versus a post-secondary education with a degree at the end (although I could pursue a degree as well, after, but that's neither here nor there).

So I'd be thankful for anyones input (whether you've had experience with the trades or not), I'm really at a mental standstill, and decisions are going to be needed in the coming months.

Thanks
-Mike

Maybe you are more of a motivated guy than I was at your age, but when I finished high school I actually just hoped into the workforce and partied the days away. One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't start taking any post secondary classes until my mid 20's. The one thing I have noticed is that it is good to get a fall back in life. If you went and got your ticket, you always have a career that you are trained to do. If 10 years down the road you decide that you want to do something different, you still have that first career to fall back on. A good example of this is a friend of mine. He took hi BCIT courses and did his apprenticeship to become an electrician. After 3-4 years he decided he would rather become a linesman for BC Hydro so he completed that and is loving it.

Too often our society frowns on blue collar workers. So much so that we have a major shortage of them now. Every kid wants to be the top exec in the fancy office not the guy building the office. The people I know in trades are now actually making as much if not more than the people I know in white collar jobs.

Here in BC we are going to be extremely short of trades people in the coming years, so it is a really good field to go into. Our trade schools (like BCIT) are really practical.

So if later in life you want to go to a college, you already have the practical training for a good job, allowing you to focus on learning what you want to learn, not what you think you have to learn to prepare for your future. I have known too many people that have stayed in university for as long as possible (I graduated 11 years ago and still have friends in University....and no they are not going for their doctorite). So after 2-4 years of worktime and classtime for a trade, you will still be young enough (and able to enter as a mature student) to attend a university program.

Just my two cents

Good luck in your choices.

[flyv65]

When you learn a trade and have a degree, you are definetly more marketable. I do know many carpentars that have college degrees, and I do know many business managers who are also great tradesman.

Reminds me of stories from the Front Range back in the 70's: a college education was virtually worthless since there were so many of them running around, so the folks who could were turning to the trades to make ends meet living in a place they wanted to. There was a joke that went around to the tune of " You've got a Bachelor's and want to learn carpentry? Sorry kid, we've got PhD grads doing the framing: it takes at least a Masters to run shingles or haul sheetrock". One of those kids with a Masters stuck with it, and has made a verrrrrrry comfortable life for his family doing something he enjoys.

Bryan...then again, I know folks who say that their jobs don't define who they are: the jobs simply pay for their lives...

[Livingston]

Jewddha, All of the posts above are correct, even if some of them seem to be pointing a different way. I went to University right out of High School in the 60's (it was either that or be drafted). I was not ready at that time to put in the effort in all of the classes I had. I knew I was going to be a photographer but there were only 2 classes at the University I went too. After the first 2 semesters I didn't care. After 5, I had a 1.999 GPA. I watched the first draft lottery on TV and decided that No. 17 was a winning (losing) number so enlisted in the Army Reserves to prevent being drafted. After a couple jobs I ended up with a good company for 18 yrs, transfered locations and ended up in management. One of the things they did was test me for what type of job I should have (mid level technical sales management). Then the other shoe fell. I ended up divorced and remarried. The company I worked for started down sizing management and I did not have any kind of degree in business. My wife transfered out of state and I followed, of course! I've been lucky and ended up in technology sales with yearly team goals of up to $140M. (wish I got a % of that!) I've been basically training our manager on how to manage people. Do I have the degree yet? No. Do I wish I did? Of course. Would I have gotten on the right track back in '68/69? No. I do wish I had gone to a trade school, learned something like welding. Even if I never had a job that needed it, that would always be there as something to do as a hobby, art, fall back position if I needed money etc. The way large business are now, everyone should have a profession and a trade. If the profession fails you, you will have something to keep your head above water till another opportunity in your profession comes along.

Most important thing to know at this point in your life is that things WILL work out. Probably not they way you think they will but they will work. So, plan for the best and prepare for the worst and you'll be ready for anything.

I heard somewhere that the average person will end up with 5 different careers in their lifetime. I've sold door to door, been a schoolbus mechanic, motorcycle helmet manufacturer, worked in the grain business, sold steel, worked in retail, repaired computers and now in IT sales. Guess I've had my 5 and a couple for someone else.

[bubba]

All these college guys are enough to give an uneducated old truck driver an inferiority complex. My advice is take a year or two off and try a few different things even if they don't pay well at the entry level. If nothing else it give you a sense of what you don't like to do. My observation is by high school graduation most kids are overloaded with studying and can use the time away from the classroom to get a little balance. That said, a year or two is about the limit if you want to continue your education because much more than that and you tend to lose your study habits. Use that time off from school to find your passion. If you really love to do something chances are you can find someone to pay you for what you know and do. You have a whole lifetime ahead of you and you can count on changing your career at least a few times so stay open to possibilities. Pick up a bit of as many skills as you can, it's never wasted. As an example, I spent most of my life driving a truck, but I know how to wire a house, plumb it, do rough and finish carpentry, raise a garden, and many other practical things, even make clothes. I've used all those skills at one time or another even if for my own satisfaction rather than as a job. The guys have given you alot of more specific advice, I'm just giving you a general view from my observations and experience. Best of luck, take your time and enjoy the ride.

[cavscout]

The only constant you can work with is what "You" want to do.

I took a few semesters of Computer Programming in H.S. and enjoyed it, but I didn't have the vision to see where it could take me. Everyone told me growing up that I had to go to college, so, that's what I expected to do, simply because it's what I was supposed to do. It never clicked with me. I finally decided to try a Technical College to get an Associates in Construction Management. During this time I decided to join the Marine Corps and Serve as an Air Traffic Controller. I figured it would be a good future since Reagan had Fired all the NATCA Controllers. There were many jobs available to prior service people. Clinton reversed Reagans firings and all these former controllers were rehired and "poof" the jobs were gone. I had no interest in Computers as I approached my end of service and figured I would jump back into construction since I finished my associates in the corps. A few years in construction and I developed a love of working with computers. I decided I needed to jump into the DotCom boom and make some money. About 6 months later the DotCom Bombed. I really felt strongly that the IT Field was where I was supposed to be though so I stuck it out in school to finish the Associates in IT (using the military GI Bill to pay for it ). With a bit of Social Networking I proceeded thru an entry level support job and am currently in a Database Development position with ... a construction company As Dave said, "no education is wasted" , I've been able to build more helpful applications due to my background in construction.

Bottom line, as best you can, identify your passions and pursue those. You will be miserable if the situation is not a good fit for you.

Some people can set a straight course to their goal. Others of us have a more zig zag path. Make the mistakes while you're un-married and no kids, it's a lot easier to recover at that time. Your margin of error decreases drastically when you have dependants

[Colin]

All these college guys are enough to give an uneducated old truck driver an inferiority complex. My advice is take a year or two off and try a few different things even if they don't pay well at the entry level. If nothing else it give you a sense of what you don't like to do. My observation is by high school graduation most kids are overloaded with studying and can use the time away from the classroom to get a little balance. That said, a year or two is about the limit if you want to continue your education because much more than that and you tend to lose your study habits. Use that time off from school to find your passion. If you really love to do something chances are you can find someone to pay you for what you know and do. You have a whole lifetime ahead of you and you can count on changing your career at least a few times so stay open to possibilities. Pick up a bit of as many skills as you can, it's never wasted. As an example, I spent most of my life driving a truck, but I know how to wire a house, plumb it, do rough and finish carpentry, raise a garden, and many other practical things, even make clothes. I've used all those skills at one time or another even if for my own satisfaction rather than as a job. The guys have given you alot of more specific advice, I'm just giving you a general view from my observations and experience. Best of luck, take your time and enjoy the ride.

Sounds like a good idea, but unfortuantely it is an outdated one these days Bubba. I know, I did just that. The rate of university students in BC is huge nowadays. BC has also become a climate where you need a degree or trade to get any good job these days. The provincial governement has not made it very appealing to just enter the job market. I worked crappy manual labor jobs for 10 years before I started taking classes again. Learning a trade (a very short amount of time) will give you something to hold onto while you are learning what you enjoy doing and the means to pursue that dream.

What is the rule of thumb now? People will change their careers at least 3 times in their working life"? If that is the case it is better to have a safety net.

[davedove]

Bryan...then again, I know folks who say that their jobs don't define who they are: the jobs simply pay for their lives...

That's the philosophy I try to follow. I've found that no matter how much I enjoy something, if it becomes my livelihood, it's a JOB. My work pays the bills, it doesn't rule my life.

[GlassMan]

Well, I guess I'll throw in my two cents here.

I went to University straight out of High School because the only things I had ever considered wanting to do at that time required degrees. When I first showed up at Yale I thought I'd go into economics, but that quickly changed to History. I would up doing Medieval European Economic History with a secondary focus on Art History. I was extremely satisfied with my time at school and wouldn't have traded it for the world.

Following my bachelors I went straight on for doctoral study. And in regards to the comments people have made about PhD candidates often loosing sight of the rest of the world, I resembled that remark!

However I totally lost the desire to become an academic after seeing the lives of my faculty adviser and his fellow department members at Harvard. They were the biggest bunch of stuck-up snobs with bad attitudes that I'd ever met. I hated it. :x

So I left and went into what I guess qualifies as a trade - firefighting. However, even in that profession my good solid liberal arts education (with lots of other disciplines studies besides my major including sciences, mathematics, foreign languages, etc.) served me very well and I rapidly became one of the most relied upon members of the department.

And now I make stained glass, another profession that required an apprenticeship. But all my studies continue to help me because I am much better able to communicate with my customers and guide them through the design process than many of my competitors. I also understand the basic science behind what we do much better which helps me make improvements others have not even considered.

If you have even the slightest inkling of taking up a profession that requires University, I say go for it. Even if you wind up in a trade later, that education will still be helpful for you in the long run.

BTW, I have a friend who graduated with me from Yale and he now works as a carpenter! He's extremely satisfied with his life and doesn't regret having gotten a degree.