Polaris Tartan

**KiltedKnight** · 18th February 06, 10:25 AM

Speaking for myself and being retired from the U.S. Army for 15 years now it is my opinion that the wearing of a service related tartan should be looked on as flattery. I would feel a bit of pride seeing someone wearing and aware of the tartan dedicated to a branch of the armed forces. The only things that I would be very offended with would be seeing someone wearing ribbons or medals or especially the CIB without being entitled to it.

Chris.

**auld argonian** · 18th February 06, 11:03 AM

Re Todd's comments about wearing medals as a tribute to your forebearers; for some time I wore my dad's wings from the WWII Army Air Corps on the lapel of a sport coat as a homage to him (he's still around...don't get me wrong). When he took off for a reunion in Holland I bought him a new leather flight jacket and a set of cloissone badges for the USAAF and the 8th Army Air Force to wear on it. I felt that I had to give him the wings back for this event and I hope that the remembers to pass them on to me when he takes off...

Best

AA

**Richland** · 18th February 06, 11:38 AM

I'm with Kilted knight on this one. Wear it proudly. It is quite an offense to wear awards not earned. If you are trying to pass yourself off as an awarde'.
clearly this is not the case.

**Mike n NC** · 18th February 06, 12:07 PM

First and foremost, good luck. The Polaris tatran in no longer a production tartan and must be special ordered. At least it was last year when I checked into it. It was avalible but at about $85 USD per yard or more.

As a retired bubblehead I won't say not to wear it but I would look on it as a not so good thing. Sorta like a non-qual wearing a set of dolphins. Since the Submarine community has always been the elite of the fleet (all others are only targets), we are justly jealous of anything that pertains to us or the service. Military tartans are a sticky spot. Some will encourage you to wear them, some just don't care and some will be dead set against it. One of the organizations I belong to (SubVets) is completely against anyone else wearing it.

Go ahead and try it, the worst that may happen is some submariner with an attitude may wear it home.

Mike

**macwilkin** · 18th February 06, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mike n NC

First and foremost, good luck. The Polaris tatran in no longer a production tartan and must be special ordered. At least it was last year when I checked into it. It was avalible but at about $85 USD per yard or more.

As a retired bubblehead I won't say not to wear it but I would look on it as a not so good thing. Sorta like a non-qual wearing a set of dolphins. Since the Submarine community has always been the elite of the fleet (all others are only targets), we are justly jealous of anything that pertains to us or the service. Military tartans are a sticky spot. Some will encourage you to wear them, some just don't care and some will be dead set against it. One of the organizations I belong to (SubVets) is completely against anyone else wearing it.

Go ahead and try it, the worst that may happen is some submariner with an attitude may wear it home.

Mike

Mike,

Has your organization adopted the Polaris tartan then as an "offical" tartan? Does the tartan have any "official" status, apart from the USNA Pipes & Drums? What does Subvets think about the Mids wearing it?

Not trying to disagree here; just curious.

Regards,

Todd

**Mike n NC** · 18th February 06, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Mike,

Has your organization adopted the Polaris tartan then as an "offical" tartan? Does the tartan have any "official" status, apart from the USNA Pipes & Drums? What does Subvets think about the Mids wearing it?

Not trying to disagree here; just curious.

Regards,

Todd

Since the tartan was the brainchild of, designed by and brought into being by the Submarine community at the Holy Loch Sub Base, then home of the forward depoyed "boomer" subs, it has pretty much always been considered Submarine property. As far as claiming ownership, no I don't believe that SubVets does though it is turning up in increasing numbers at the annual Submarine Ball(s).
As far as the USNA Pipes and Drums, mixed feelings. Some are proud that the Polaris tartan was chosen, some not. Personally I see it as a salute to the Sub Service. It is also the only tartan that is specificly Navy since the Edzell tartan incorperates colors from the other branches of service.
One thing that you must understand about Midshipmen. They are held in absolute contempt by most of the fleet, treated as one would treat a spoiled, ill tempered child but they put on a good show for the Navy.
I did meet one, and only one, that I considered worthy of my respect. During an extended deployment, with a time onboard waiver from the CO, this third class middie qualified Submarines in just at two months. (the first class middies barely qualified their assigned watch stations) I sat his qual board so I know that he didn't get it blown off, the man worked his butt off for it and I hope he later joined "the service".

Hope that helped Todd.

Mike

Edit: And going with the idea of wearing what you want, all that I would ask of someone in a Polaris kilt is that it be worn with pride and much respect as deserved by those that go to sea on ships that are designed to sink. For those unfamiliar with "the service", google the history of submarines in WWII.

**macwilkin** · 18th February 06, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mike n NC

Since the tartan was the brainchild of, designed by and brought into being by the Submarine community at the Holy Loch Sub Base, then home of the forward depoyed "boomer" subs, it has pretty much always been considered Submarine property. As far as claiming ownership, no I don't believe that SubVets does though it is turning up in increasing numbers at the annual Submarine Ball(s).
As far as the USNA Pipes and Drums, mixed feelings. Some are proud that the Polaris tartan was chosen, some not. Personally I see it as a salute to the Sub Service. It is also the only tartan that is specificly Navy since the Edzell tartan incorperates colors from the other branches of service.
One thing that you must understand about Midshipmen. They are held in absolute contempt by most of the fleet, treated as one would treat a spoiled, ill tempered child but they put on a good show for the Navy.
I did meet one, and only one, that I considered worthy of my respect. During an extended deployment, with a time onboard waiver from the CO, this third class middie qualified Submarines in just at two months. (the first class middies barely qualified their assigned watch stations) I sat his qual board so I know that he didn't get it blown off, the man worked his butt off for it and I hope he later joined "the service".

Hope that helped Todd.

Mike

Edit: And going with the idea of wearing what you want, all that I would ask of someone in a Polaris kilt is that it be worn with pride and much respect as deserved by those that go to sea on ships that are designed to sink. For those unfamiliar with "the service", google the history of submarines in WWII.

Thanks, Mike. That does clear things up. I'll most certainly discuss this with the Padre tomorrow at mass and see what his thoughts are.

Cheers,

Todd

**Richland** · 18th February 06, 12:28 PM

Go ahead and try it, the worst that may happen is some submariner with an attitude may wear it home.

Mike[/QUOTE]

Na, Navy feeds sub guys too well it will never fit on one of them!

**Pleater** · 18th February 06, 12:22 PM

My brother has worn our Dad's medals - correctly, as family, on the right.

I only recently found out Dad's squardon was No 247 - they were often sharing airfields with American squadrons in England and France in WWII - he was sometimes called in as a problem solver for aircraft with gremlins.

He was always amazed at the ingeneous ways things could actually be assembled and yet still be wrong, or what people would do automatically when starting work and not undo when they wanted the plane to fly again - like isolating the magneto.

**Riverkilt** · 18th February 06, 12:36 PM

Not sure if this is helpful. My father served in the RAF and the Army Air Corps in War 2. He was at Dieppe and Kasserine Pass. Shot down at the later and got a close look at the Afrika Corps. His brother, my uncle, was a combat infantryman across France and Germany and was with the first company in to liberate Dachau. (Just before he died I asked him about rumors the American G.I.s had shot all the Germans they found at Dachau. He said, "Only the Gestapo.")

I have a replica RAF Flying Sgt's battle jacket that I wear with my kilts in my father's honor.

I have a replica B-13 Army Air Corps officer's Ike jacket that I wear with my kilts in my father's honor.

I have an enlisted Ike Jacket that I wear with my kilts in my uncle's honor.

I have had my father's fighter squadron and fighter group insignia reproduced (actually, the later was never produced) and have worn them on my Utilikilt pockets in his honor. I also took them to his fighter group reunion last year and gave/shared them with some of the surviving original members of the unit and second generation family of those that are already gone.

As old as I am, I don't think anyone will mistake me for a War 2 vet, but the point is its okay to honor your father's service. Hopefully, any sub vets would understand the intent - or that you'd get a fair chance to explain if challenged.

Ron