uber formal on the cheap: dollar by dollar

[cloves]

ok...stupid girl question here..but can one of you gents tell me the difference between a cravat and a tie? I thought they were the same thing...also, the diff between a four-in-hand and an ascot.
I've always liked the look of those morning tux outfits I see in the tux books around prom time. I was wondering if you could modify that light colored formal look... to fit a nice kilt outfit? Would it work?

[Cinnabar]

Thank you so much for a helpful and informative post that will no doubt save many people on this forum considerable $. I'm very impressed with all the time and work you put into the post. Not only do I think this post should be sticky, I hearby nominate you for the Nobel Kilt Prize. Anyone second?

[cloves]

I second! and not just for his work in this particular thread.

[Scottish Chi]

Wow! If I had done this instead of getting a Prince Charlie and a inexpensive kilt I could have had enough for a tank. Great information. Thanks.

[Southern Breeze]

We've got a move and a second, all in favor say AYE!!

[Alan H]

**LOL** You guys are a crackup.

cloves, look here:

This is a ascot, though the website calls it a cravat...WRONG...except that we'll see that it's really not wrong.:



How to tie an ascot.....
http://www.dionneckwear.com/ascot.jpg

This is another ascot:


sort of a fake ascot, really. I can't imagine why anoyone would make an ascot with a fake neck-piece because they're brain-dead easy to tie, but whatever.

And one more pic, but this is a cravat, though it's tied very much like an ascot. Nice job on the knot on that one,though in fact it's probably not knotted.
http://www.jimsformalwear.com/images/ac_lg_cravat.jpg

Here's a picture of an ascot that does it some justice, though I hate the color. But hey, you might like pink....



Here's a link on how to tie a cravat....or is it a cravat?

http://www.thecravatcompany.co.uk/howtotie.htm


This page is a picture comparion of all of them...

http://www.ellysformalwear.com/accessories.html

Notice that what this page calls a "Sharpei" tie is exactly what that link up there calls "cravat". Huh.....son of a gun. to tell you the truth, I've never heard of a "sharpei".


Here's an old, old cravat, so you know what it really is and where it came from..
http://www.costumes.org/history/18th...ats/cravat.gif

And finally, here's the Wikipedia entry for "tie" in which you will discover that a 'four in hand tie" is esentially what we normally think of as a "tie", and that they're all descended from Cravats..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie

So in other words..."cravat" is a word that really refers to any decorative stripof cloth that adorns a gentlemans neck. So therefore a "four in hand" and an "ascot" are both cravats. What you're probably thinking of is an "Ascot".

As for morning wear, if anyone had worn a morning suit after noon in the 1920's though the 1950's, it'd be scandalous. i remember seeing a pciture of President Bush visiting japan, and his luggage had gotten messed up and he was forced to wear someone elses morning suit to an evening affair with the Japanese Prime Minister. He looked god-awful and out-of place. so IF YOU ASK ME...and you're not asking me, but IF YOU DID...

I'd say only wear a morning suit with an ascot if your affair is before noon, or at least begins before noon and concludes by mid-afternoon. If it begins anytime after noon, go with a tuxedo-style suit.

...and do NOT mix a morning suit jacket with a kilt. NOOOOOO....Hamish will absolutely EXPIRE. **laughing**

And for the hell of it....tails are only for night. And white dinner jackets are worn at dinner and then come off, replaced by a black jacket for after-dinner.

Hope that helps!

[Tiran]

What about the vests? Kilt jackets are signifigantly shorter, so you cant just use any jacket, but are the vests on this site short enough for a waistcoat? I got a good deal on an ex hire argyle (at least a good deal compared to new) but I want a waist coat to go with it.

[Livingston]

We've got a move and a second, all in favor say AYE!!

AYE!! Alan's the man! (looking around for any extra $$ for MY jacket)

[Kirkwood]

Thank you, Alan. You've been a great help.

Ron

[beerbecue]

With a little tailoring of the tails, this (the First Nighter) would do as a closer match to a Prince Charlie, although it is a tad more expensive than the Eton....

http://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/ap...ojackets3.html


BTW, I ordered and received my Eton jacket in TWO DAYS. The quality is great for the price, who needs a full lining???

Now to get the buttons sewn on....

Thanks again Alan!!!!