Clan and District tartan history

[macwilkin]

Phil,

We're actually agreeing now more than we're disagreeing; many thanks for the clarification on the whole "apples v. oranges" thing! :mrgreen:

btw, Matt is reading this thread even as we "speak", so I'm sure he'll want to weigh in on it as well.

No worries or hurries on the sources, btw -- I shouldn't have been so "demanding" on them in the way I typed my posts -- on the contrary. I have no doubts of your academic ability or integrity, and you haven't insulted mine -- although I only went to a piddly-little land-grant university for my BA and MA, not Yale, Harvard or Princeton! :mrgreen:

Good thread!

Cheers,

Todd

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

I don't know what the real answer is, but this has been a very interesting thread to read. Looking forward to more chapters.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Interesting thread, guys. Some great sources you've cited there! lol...

One real danger that we have when looking for any kind of early evidence of "clan tartans" or "district tartans" systems is a tendancy to project our contemporary notions back onto past sources. One perfect example is the quote from Martin Martin' Description of the Western Isles of Scotland in 1703.

Every Isle differs from each other in their fancy of making Plads as to the stripes in breadth and colours. The humour is as different through the mainland of the Highlands, in so far that they who have seen those places are able at first view of the man’s Plad, to guess the place of his residence.

I dealt with this quote in my article on district-tartans.com:

Many have extrapolated from this brief description that some kind of uniform and standardized system of district tartans was in place in the Isles and Western Highlands of Scotland at this time. This is a conclusion that goes beyond what the evidence warrants. All Martin is really saying, above, is that people living in the same location (often enough being supplied their cloth by the same weaver) would have certain similarities in the pattern of their tartans, and that these would be different from the styles in other locations. A person knowledgeable of such regional variations would be able to make a reasonable assumption about where a Highlander was from based on the characteristics of the tartan he wore – and the idea that one could identify the home region of a person based on certain characteristics of his clothing is hardly unique to Scotland. Any speculation beyond this would be suspect.

In other words, there is nothing directly in Martin's quote to suggest that all people of a particular clan, or of a particular place, wore a certain tartan. All he says is that people from a given location would have certain similarities in dress -- and we can say that about today, to some extent, especially in more rural and traditional locations.

Now, if there was a lot of other evidence in the early eighteenth century, contemporary with Martin, that also indicated a particluar system of clan tartans, then it would have more weight. As it is, though, all we have is this one quote that simply says people from the same area tend to dress similarly, and if you are familiar with the customs, you have a reasonable chance of guessing where they are from.

As for clans being asked to wear the same tartan when they come to battle, keep in mind that the famous quote from the Grants simply calls for broad striped red and green -- which describes about half the tartans out there! Also, if there was a "clan tartan" that all of Clan Grant knew about and possessed, the cheif would not have had to make this demand!

After reading Jamie Scarlet's recent little book on Military Tartans (Partizan Press), I'm convinced that the "clan tartan" actually had its origins in *military* tartans. We know that specific regiments were outfitted in the same tartan from sometime before the middle of the eighteenth century (I don't have his book right here with me now), and because many of these regiments bore clan names, the association naturally spread to the clan.

I can think of many clan tartans that originated this way -- Gordon, MacKenzie, Robertson (hunting), Murray, and many others.

Gotta run now! I'll have to keep an eye on this thread!
M

[GlassMan]

After reading Jamie Scarlet's recent little book on Military Tartans (Partizan Press), I'm convinced that the "clan tartan" actually had its origins in *military* tartans. We know that specific regiments were outfitted in the same tartan from sometime before the middle of the eighteenth century (I don't have his book right here with me now), and because many of these regiments bore clan names, the association naturally spread to the clan.

That would definitely explain the references in MacKay literature to the tartans worn by the MacKay Highland Regiment and the MacKay Highland Fusiliers.

I'm going to have to go look at for that book. Sounds like it will make a nice addition to the library. I will reserve judgement on the book until I have read it. But from what I've read on our particular units, it was raised from predominantly our clan members and the tartan chosen was that of the local region which then became associated with the clan. While other clans of the area then added identifiable differences to the regional tartan to solidify their identity.

But once again, I'm having to rely on memory, since the blasted books are inside a box at the moment.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

To shed a bit more light on the Clan Chiefs running about their territory asking all the elders of the clan if they could recall what the "traditional clan tartan" was before Proscription, let me give a few illustrative anecdotes.

The first big push to get the clan cheifs to say what "their" tartan was came as late as 1815 when the Highland Society of London decided to put together a collection of tartans, with the seal and approval of the cheifs. (Keep in mind that this was just at the beginning of the "tartan cult" and the myth was already emerging that the tartan system was very old -- the complete lack of information about it in the past was only see as evidence of its being "suppressed"). Historical scholarship was not the same in the early nineteenth century as it is today.

For example, James Logan's work in The Scottish Gael (published in 1831, I beleive) was fine except that it suffered from one major flaw -- and that is that Logan assumed that anything that the oder generation said was "traditional" was necessarily "ancient" with a pedigree spanning centuries. We now know that many of these customs he described only emerged a generation or two before him. It would be a bit like asking your grandparents what things were like in King Richard's court.

Anyway, the Highland Society of London wanted to "preserve" all these "traditional clan tartans" before they were "lost" (all very romantic concepts). So they wrote to the cheifs of the clans asking them to submit samples of their tartans for the collection.

This is a major event in the history of tartan for two reasons: 1) it was the first real attempt to catalog the different tartans in one index, 2) it established the very important principle that the cheif has final authority over the clan tartan.

That aside, it did set many clan cheifs into a tizzy. Most of them didn't even know they were supposed to have a "clan tartan!" Keep in mind that just because you inherited the cheifship of a clan, it doesn't make you automatically an expert in your clan's history. If these "experts" from London said you had a clan tartan, they must be getting it from somewhere, right?

So, as Glassman said in an earlier post, many clan cheifs did indeed go about asking the older men of the clan if they could remember what the old clan tartan was. One such example is the cheif of Clan Donnachaidh (the Robertson clan). And he found several old men who claimed to know what the "true" clan tartan was. Problem was that they all said it was something different!

What the cheif ultimately submitted to the Highland Society of London as "the" Robertson tartan was the pattern worn by the Loyal Clan Donnachaidh Volunteers, a home guard raised in 1810. It is a military tartan, based on the Black Watch (we call it Hunting Robertson today). Since the unit only existed from 1810, the tartan was probably no more than 5 years old when it was submitted (and is another example of a clan adopting a military tartan).

More often than not, however, the cheifs would simply do what any Scottish tourist might do to enquire about a tartan -- he would write to the largest tartan supplier at the time, Wilsons of Bannockburn. The Chief of the MacPhersons did just that.

Wilsons had a tartan in their line originally called No. 42. When they began to assign tartans names in the latter part of the eighteenth century, they simply called this one Caledonia. Later on, a man from the east coast of Scotland named Kidd purchased an amount of this cloth, and his name got added to the record. So it was indexed as No. 42 or Kidd. Later on still, a man named McPherson in the West Indies purchased a signifigant amount of this pattern, and his name was also added to the records.

So when the Cheif of the MacPhersons wrote to Wilsons asking for a sample of "the MacPherson tartan" they sent him a sample of No. 42. And this is the sample that the cheif put his seal on and submitted to the Highland Society. Today we call this the red MacPherson tartan, although sometimes it is still sold under the name Kidd. (The present day Caledonia tartan, if anyone is wondering, is not the same sett, though it is similar. Wilsons gave the name Caledonia to several tartans).

You can see that Wilsons named their patterns for a number of reasons. In this case, the name came from a client who purchased the cloth. Sometimes it may be named after a location where it sold well (like Aberdeen or Dundee). Sometimes Wilsons did not know why a tartan was given a particular name. In their 1819 pattern book they commented that they had no idea why the Logan tartan had that name (remember they had been in business since the 1760s). They say that a man named Thomas Logan used to supply them with patterns, and it could be that this pattern was either found or designed by him, but this is a guess.

There are all kinds of interesting stories about where these tartans came from if you look back through the historic record (including one letter in Wilsons' archives from a tartan merchant, no doubt looking to fill an order for a client, that simply says, "please send a sample of the Rose tartan, and if there is none, send a different tartan and call it Rose."

Aye,
Matt

[GlassMan]

There are all kinds of interesting stories about where these tartans came from if you look back through the historic record (including one letter in Wilsons' archives from a tartan merchant, no doubt looking to fill an order for a client, that simply says, "please send a sample of the Rose tartan, and if there is none, send a different tartan and call it Rose."

Aye,
Matt

Of all the different little tidbits of the history of how various modern tartans got their names, that one is by far my absolute favorite so far!

[GlassMan]

No worries or hurries on the sources, btw -- I shouldn't have been so "demanding" on them in the way I typed my posts -- on the contrary. I have no doubts of your academic ability or integrity, and you haven't insulted mine -- although I only went to a piddly-little land-grant university for my BA and MA, not Yale, Harvard or Princeton! :mrgreen:

Don't make light of that land-grant university. Some of the best history departments in the nation are not at Ivy league schools, but at public universities! I should now, I applied to some when I was working on Grad School applications.

[beerbecue]

-- although I only went to a piddly-little land-grant university for my BA and MA, not Yale, Harvard or Princeton!

Recent data suggests that schools such as Yale and Harvard suffer from a horrible case of grade inflation... so much so that a B/C at these institutions is the equivalent to a barely passing grade (read D-) at schools with a modicum of academic rigor...

And to stay on topic...

This thread seems to me all the more justification to wear what you like, and to ignore those sites that use words like 'entitled' to describe what you can wear.

Very educational, indeed.

[GlassMan]

Recent data suggests that schools such as Yale and Harvard suffer from a horrible case of grade inflation... so much so that a B/C at these institutions is the equivalent to a barely passing grade (read D-) at schools with a modicum of academic rigor...

Speaking from personal experience (having attended both) what you say is relatively correct. I did see far more grade inflation at Harvard than at Yale. There was a definite sentiment of entitlement among the Harvard undergraduates, who roundly complained if their work did not receive an A. I would say at Harvard (as a graduate student) if an undergraduate received a B it was really for barely passable work and if an undergraduate received a C it really should have failed. While at Yale a C should really have been a D or D- while a D should have been and F. Yale A's and B's tended to reflect the level of rigor that should be expected for an incredibly challenging university.

I remember one of my history classes incredibly well. It was a history of WW I, WW II and the interwar period taught by Sir Michael Howard. He was an excellent professor and he started off the class by letting everyone know that he did not believe in grade inflation. In fact, in a class of approximately 100 he stated that he would "count the A's upon my right hand." I'm rather proud to say that I received on of the 5 A's and A-'s that he awarded for that semester. I'm also proud to say that I managed A- overall averages at both schools.

Personally, I think the long standing practice of the "Gentleman's C" is horrible. It has been in existence for well over 100 years as a way for scions of wealthy families of below average intellect to still attain a degree from a university intimately connected to their family. I know that those legacies tend to give far more money than those of us who are first-generation members of the alumni pool, but their membership should not be based on pure grade manipulation.

If you ever meet anyone with a degree from an Ivy who managed only a C average or worse then you can pretty much assumed that they should have flunked out of college. Sadly that describes an incredibly number of people with immense amounts of power over our lives. I shall refrain from naming names to avoid this thread taking on a political tone.

Exceptionally high grades over all were still difficult to attain and required the highest level of scholarship at Yale (I remember one paper in which I found myself retranslating several items Papal correspondence with the Third Reich from German & Latin into English to make my point) but those who should have truly failed or been close to failing were protected from that shame with C's and D's. So while the lowest grades are definitely subject to inflation, and there are even too many B's given for work that didn't deserve it, for most students the level of academic rigor is still well above that expected of many other institutions. The actual requirement of a thesis paper simply to achieve an undergraduate degree is something that my high school friends who attended other institutions found astonishing. And the level of detail expected in said senior thesis was of standards not required even by some graduate programs. My work on The Economic and Diplomatic Internactions of the Duchy of Amalfi & the Islamic States of North Africa, Egypt & the Levant between the years 800 & 1181 went into such depth that the University had to request assistance from professors at several other schools because my expertise on the matter had exceeded all but one member of the Yale history faculty.

So while the effort of C & D students at Yale, Harvard and other schools should rightly be derided, please do not then assume that the works of other students must also have been held to a low standard. Instead, the reality is that there are really two systems at work. One grading system covers the intellectually challenged descendents of the elite, and the other covers the academically superb students whose presence was caused by their talent, intelligence and merit.


Okay, enough of this incredibly digression.

[andyfg]

Just want to say thanks to all for an utterly engrossing thread . . .