4 yard vs 8 yard - Part Two

**RockyR** · 20th May 06, 09:50 AM

in the climate which I live (Philly area), every type has it's place. I have about 20 +/- kilts.

In winter, the 8 yard wool is most comfortable.
In spring / fall, the 5 yard wool and Semi Trad PV are more comfortable.
In Summer, the Casual and my FKs are great as well as the Semi Trad and 5 yard wools.

If you're in a "colder region", then I can completely understand the 8 yarders being the kilt of choice. If you lived in a HOTTER region (FL, CA, TX), then the Casual/semi Trad would probably be the all round kilt of choice.

**Iolaus** · 20th May 06, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by RockyR

If you're in a "colder region", then I can completely understand the 8 yarders being the kilt of choice. If you lived in a HOTTER region (FL, CA, TX), then the Casual/semi Trad would probably be the all round kilt of choice.

My first stillwater was the 2005 HW Black Watch, which I understand is heavier than the other HW Stillwaters. I tried it on and immediately realized that it was too heavy for SoCal - at least for me - and sent it back. I have yet to wear the HW Lamont in the summer, but it's definately lighter (13oz?) and I think it will be fine as long as I keep my shirts light and loose.

I think what makes a kilt hot or not, is more about the mass around your hips than anything else; the breeze around your legs cools everything else.

**Pleater** · 20th May 06, 03:15 PM

I found that a fabric thick enough to make a kilt respectable looking and behaving, with sewn down box pleats from a minimum amount of cloth caused me to overheat around the middle even in the coldest February weather we can expect here on the South Coast of England.

I would say that a stiffish cotton fabric might be an option, being cooler and it would resist being blown about, but 5 yards would look less skimped than 4, unless for someone rather skinny.

Another option might be to make the 4 yard box pleated kilt and cut out the back of the fell so as to make just two, or even one layer and line it with cotton to avoid any danger of spontaneous combustion.

**Panache** · 20th May 06, 03:48 PM

I am following this thread with great interest because I have decided that I am going forgoing any more Stillwaters or Utilikilts to save up for a`custom kilt in my family tartan. I would love to give the work to an X Marker. Matt Newsome will do knife pleated 5 yard heavy weight (16 oz.) kilts while Rocky and others also offer the 8-9 yard "tank". I'm torn because I would love to save the extra $100 (allowing me to get my kilt sooner). But I don't want to regret not being patient and getting the "real deal". I'm a relatively thin guy (waist 36"). So I don't want to have a kilt that is too much material or is too hot. My closest frame of reference is my 2006 Heavyweight SWK Black "Shadow Tartan". I'm not sure the weight or ammount of material in it. I think it is plenty heavy and has excellent "swish".

So keep the information coming all. Your opinions are valuable.

Cheers

**Blu (Ontario)** · 20th May 06, 04:36 PM

The 4 yard kilt that I tried was an "off the peg" with shallow knife pleats The fabric was very light, probably 11oz. I have no experience with box pleat kilts. Do they behave differently than knife pleats on a windy day? Is there such a thing as an 8 yard box pleat kilt?

**bubba** · 20th May 06, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Blu (Ontario)

Is there such a thing as an 8 yard box pleat kilt?

Only for a VERY VERY large man.

**Scottish Chi** · 21st May 06, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Panache

I am following this thread with great interest because I have decided that I am going forgoing any more Stillwaters or Utilikilts to save up for a`custom kilt in my family tartan. I would love to give the work to an X Marker. Matt Newsome will do knife pleated 5 yard heavy weight (16 oz.) kilts while Rocky and others also offer the 8-9 yard "tank". I'm torn because I would love to save the extra $100 (allowing me to get my kilt sooner). But I don't want to regret not being patient and getting the "real deal". I'm a relatively thin guy (waist 36"). So I don't want to have a kilt that is too much material or is too hot. My closest frame of reference is my 2006 Heavyweight SWK Black "Shadow Tartan". I'm not sure the weight or ammount of material in it. I think it is plenty heavy and has excellent "swish".

So keep the information coming all. Your opinions are valuable.

Cheers

Panach, Well said. I seem to be on the same quest as yourself with the same experience (2006 Heavyweight SWK Black "Shadow Tartan"). Only my 36 " waist left me a decade ago.

Cheers! Bill

**Alan H** · 21st May 06, 11:28 AM

I have two four-yard kilts. One is a USA Kilts casual in Ramsay Blue, the other is a Bear Kilt in MacNaughton. Both are ten ounce Polyester Viscose.

The Bear Kilt is the more "constructed" of the two kilts, and I HATE to write this on the forum, but I have to....it's falling apart. I wore it to the Livermore games yesterday and that's it, I'm going to have to wash it and sit down and re-stitch a mess of the kilt back together again. I'm honestly considering ripping all the stitching out and making a sash for my wife out of it, and maybe a tie and a bow tie. I'd buy 3 yards of wool/poly blend, which is available in muted MacNaughton from Marton Mills in 13 ounce and stitch up yet another kilt. My Lady won't wear tartan, so a sash is about as much as I can hope for.

I won't wear a 4-yard kilt to Highland games again. My four-yard kilts have 15-16 pleats, and they don't look right when compared to "real" kilts.

ON the other hand, my USA Kilts casual is holding up very well, and I enjoy it. It's great on a hot day. Still, I find that the difference between four yards and five yards...the extra weight and the 4-5-6 more pleats that you get, makes a HUGE difference in the feel and appearrance of the kilt. My Holyrood 5-yard is a very good-looking kilt. Note that the Stillwaters are supposed to mostly be 6-yards, and they have enough pleats that from the "pleat standpoint" you can't tell them from a 7-8 yarder..

The heavy kilt I made for "practice" turned out to be 7 yards and it's got 26 pleats in it. That's a lot of pleats. I'm not going to make any more kilts with less than 20 pleats in them. At this point in my kiltmaking "career" I'm thinking that 6 yards is about ideal for a kilt here in central California, and make it in 13 ounce. Why? Let's work it out.

For example...my butt measurement is 46. How many pleats will I get out of that?

Well, ignoring the details of calculating "splits", we'll do a rough estimate. Half of that 46 is going to be in apron, and half in pleats, right? One-inch pleats look pretty good, so that means 23-24 pleats around me rump. Perfect. How does that work out with the sett? Again this is a ROUGH ESTIMATE.

Two examples.:

6-inch sett. OK if the sett is 6 inches then I'm going to get approximately 4 setts-worth of tartan appearing around my rump. If I use one-inch reveals on the pleats, then I'm going to have 6 pleats per set, right? That's 24 setts. Nice! 16 isn't enough and 30 or more is just a mess of extra work if you ask me.

If each sett is 6 inches, then 24 setts is 144 inches of cloth that's going to get pleated around me rump. 144 inches is 12 feet, or four yards.

Throw in a yard for the over-apron and a yard for the under-apron and you have yourself a 6 yard kilt. See? The X Marks tartan is essentially a 6-inch sett.

How about for a 4.5 inch sett? (since a number of Fraser and Kirkbright's fabrics have a 4.5 inch sett)

OK if the sett is 4.5 inches then I'm going to get approximately 5 setts-worth of tartan, apearing in pleats around my rump (4.5 x 5 = 22.5, OK throw in an extra pleat or two...details, details). If I use 0.9 inch reveals on the pleats, then I'm going to have 5 pleats per set, right? So that's 25 pleats, which is great.. 25 pleats means 25 setts-worth of tartan is pleated into the stuff that goes around me bottom.

If each sett is 4.5 inches, then 25 setts is 112 inches of cloth that's going to get pleated around me rump. 112 inches is 9.3 feet, or 3 yards and change.

Throw in a yard for the over-apron and a yard for the under-apron and you have yourself a 5+, approaching 6 yard kilt, with enough left over for flashes and a knick-knack or two, maybe a bow tie..

With those numbers in hand, look at your Clan or regional tartan. Measure your bottom. Find out the size of the sett of the fabric you want to get made into your kilt. DON'T get/make a kilt with less that 20 pleats. More than 30 pleats is kind of pointless IMHO. Now do that calculation I just did, up there, for your rump, your tartan and your particular situation. Can you make (have made) a kilt with 22-28 pleats, in your tartan, using 6 yards of cloth? I bet you can. You MIGHT have a really nice kilt with just 5 yards of cloth.

I honestly am starting to think that this "magic number" of eight yards is nothing but publicity. If you have a 34 inch waist and you wrap eight yards of cloth around your backside, and INSIST on 8 yards, then the kiltmaker is going to have to waste cloth in double-deep pleats and stuff and it just doesn't make sense. Think hard about 6-yard kilts.

Just my two cents, expanded up to about eight cents worth of text.

**Panache** · 21st May 06, 11:54 AM

Thanks Alan that was very helpful. I now need to find out how many pleats a 5 yard knife pleated Galbraith would have on a 36" waist (if it's 20+ or not) and then can decide if 5 yards is enough or to go for the full monty...err... kilt.

Cheers

**MacSimoin** · 21st May 06, 12:00 PM

I personally don't have any 4-yard kilts; everything I have is a minimum of 5 yards or more, but I certainly don't feel any of the kilts I own are too light by any means. I think that a kilt's weight is subjective to personal preference (or finance for that matter) anyway. While I don't have my 8-yard Fitzsimmons kilt yet (from Edgar, due in July), I'm really looking forward to getting it since it will be my first 8-yard 'traditional' kilt.