Irish kilt pics, 1905

[switchblade5984]

Oh I wouldn't say it was a defeat. Besides I may finally knuckle under and buy one of the bloody things I appreciate your effort.Thanks again.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa

finally!

THANK YOU MOOSEHEAD!

[An t-Ileach]

I have some brass buttons of the Leinster Regiment. Did the Connaught Rangers have a pipe band before their disbandment in India?

There's another possible angle to some of this:

Much of Irish nationalism draws its culture from the south east as it does its language - the Munster dialect is in effect the standard of Irish. Whereas Donegal and much of Ulster (especially Antrim) speaks more or less the same dialect of Gaelic as the southern Hebrides and Argyll.

Certain of the Islands clans (especially Clan Donald) straddle the North Passage, and it's often easier to get to Northern Ireland than it is to the bigger population centres of Scotland (such as Glasgow, Oban, or Fort William). There's a shared culture here, so could not there have been (say, on the Aran Islands) a Scottish influence (this doesn't have anything to do with plantations, Orangemen, or Ulster Scots/Scots Irish) in the wearing of the kilt and the playing of the pipes?

[Moosehead]

Alan,

those web links helped me a great deal when I first started researching this. Just as the "saffron" leine was worn in both Ireland and Scotland, so too was the colour almost universally described as being a bright or mustardy yellow.

The dye Pearse used is something called 'cottle", although I haven't a clue what it is other than a plant.

There's a shared culture here, so could not there have been (say, on the Aran Islands) a Scottish influence (this doesn't have anything to do with plantations, Orangemen, or Ulster Scots/Scots Irish) in the wearing of the kilt and the playing of the pipes?

Certainly possible. Just remember, the pipes didn't come to Ireland through Scotland, but the other way around.

[prattw]

What's used as a dyestuff is not the windsuckingly expensive spice. The dye is the dried flowers from which the saffron has already been removed. It's available in ethnic groceries locally, about $1.50 or $2.00 for enough to dye a fairly full shirt. I suspect that would make enough to dye 8 yards of wool between $10 and $20.

I have a shirt actually dyed with real saffron flowers in my closet. It's a bright, not unattractive yellow, I'd have called it "canary yellow", but mustard would be a reasonable match. The problem with saffron as a dye is it's not very fast. My shirt has been washed three or four times, now, and is noticeably paler than a couple of small items that haven't been washed. Of course, to be "in period", I really shouldn't be washing it every time it gets sweaty.

Will Pratt

[Moosehead]

which is regarded as Irish

Not entirely true. Only the London Irish wear the caubeen pulled to the left. All others, to the right.

Maybe the reversed pleats are on the same plan - to be the reverse of the British.

Unless there was simply no "standard" at the time. Any of you historians (Todd, Matt), know whether in Scotland the pleat direction was standardized at the time, around 1900? Or was it simply at the makers' discretion?

[macwilkin]

I have some brass buttons of the Leinster Regiment. Did the Connaught Rangers have a pipe band before their disbandment in India?

I could not find any reference to "The Devil's Own" having a pipe band, either in Harris or in a history of the Connaughts I have in my library.

As an aside, the Connaughts, as well as a number of other Irish regiments, had a particular tradition associated with a popular marching song, "Killaloe":

http://www.iol.ie/~ipba/killaloe.html

I have heard the "Connaught Yell" before on recordings -- basically a loud "Yo", similar to what the Jocks do in "The Black Bear".

You can hear "Killaloe" and the "Connaught Yell" here:

http://www.royalirishrangers.co.uk/

Cheers,

Todd

[macwilkin]

I had a look tonight in two books in my library about the Irish Republic's Army (not the IRA), and found pipers mentioned a couple of times:

In Donal MacCarron's "Step Together: Ireland's Emergency Army 1939-1946", It is noted that each Infantry Battalion had its own pipe band, but no real reference to uniforms. McCarron's other work, "The Irish Defence Forces since 1922", does have a picture of an Irish Army band in 1946 wearing "saffron" kilts and cloaks. Today, the Irish Air Corps Pipe Band wears the "saffron" kilt:



In this photo, taken on O'Connell Street in Dublin on Easter Monday, you will see some of the Irish pipers wearing a bonnet with saffron trim; MacCarron refers to this piece of headgear in his books as a "Glengarry", which is peculiar to the Irish forces. It was worn during WWII (The Emergency, as it was known in the Free State) by pipers and by Cavalry units in armored cars and on motorcycles.

Cheers,

Todd

[Pleater]

Many years ago I got flack from ex army for wearing my beret pulled to the left - which is regarded as Irish.

Maybe the reversed pleats are on the same plan - to be the reverse of the British.

[michael steinrok]

Many years ago I got flack from ex army for wearing my beret pulled to the left - which is regarded as Irish.

Maybe the reversed pleats are on the same plan - to be the reverse of the British.

It would be kinda contrary wouldn't it

[Moosehead]

I could not find any reference to "The Devil's Own" having a pipe band,

Same goes for the Leinster Regiment(Royal Canadians). No reference ti pipe band that I've found. It was an interesting search though, as I had no clue that this unit was originally recruited completely in Canada.