Allowed tartans

[MacWage]

I go back to sports associations:

Each team has "their" fans. Some fans are loyal to one team and one only. One guy I work with pulls only for New England Patriots (American Football) and Boston Red Sox (Baseball). Like some are members of one clan only and wear one tartan only. While others pull for several teams. I pull for Atlanta Falcons and then for Carolina Panthers (odd as their the Falcon's big rival), Green Bay Packers, and Washington Redskins. Each for different reasons. Likewise, I consider myself tied to several clans and feel a "right" to wear several tartans. I have different reasons for the tartans. Most are by blood (MacNeil, Wallace, Wilson/Gunn, Gordon/Todd) or residency (Georgia, Carolina, American), while others are out of historical respect (MacGregor-> Rob Roy), friends (Stewart, Campbell, etc), in-laws (Loud MacLeod/Lewis), or memberships (MacBubba/Culloden) to name a few. I have a reason to want to where a particular tartan, just as to pull for a certain sports team. To many, green and yellow stands for either Green Bay Packers or Oakland A's, though it is/was also the colors of Team Lotus and the livery colors of MacNeil of Barra.

One is "free" to wear what he or she wants, but these patterns have associations that virtually call for explanation. To wear these colors is tantamount to wearing a sports team colors in that one is associated with that team. If I wear Green Bay stuff, I respond that I have a lot of respect for a team that is from an area the size of "Greenville/Spartanburg" (approx. 100,000), but owns the franchise and is sold out for my lifetime, besides the great history and image of the team. In a sense, the Packers are Wisconson. Both clan tartans and sports teams have a sense of belonging that draws in "locals" and outsiders who want to share the "association" with the "insiders." The same is true of real football (soccor), baseball, racing (red and black in NASCAR->Dale Jr. and light blue and yellow in F1->Renault), and ANY other team sport.

No one wears tartan for no reason, unless it is a flannel shirt. To most, "I like the colors" is a laughable and idiotic answer. The clan would be offended at that. While a better answer is: "I am facinated by the life and the myths about Rob Roy MacGregor, especially how the myths diverge from reality, so I wear MacgGregor in respect for him, his clansmen, and their descendants." Few, but the most arrogant, MacGregors would look down at the second answer.

It is a mix of association and respect, except by the most idiotic of tartan wearers who have NO SENSE of what they are doing. (This does not apply to any I've met here, as far as I know. Interest in the history and a sense of respect is a large part of the reason most of us are here. Otherwise, none of us would have bothered.)

That is the "middle ground" and what ACTUALLY happens.

[Cawdorian]

I hate to add more confusion to this post, but----

The Campbells claim both the McTavish's and the Thompsons as septs of their clan.

The McTavish's claim both the Campbells and Thompsons as septs of their clan.

Who is right, your guess is as good as mine. :confused: But again, they may both be right.

[O'Cathain]

No one wears tartan for no reason, unless it is a flannel shirt. To most, "I like the colors" is a laughable and idiotic answer. The clan would be offended at that.

I usually don't put in my 2 cents, but after reading through this post and coming to this statement, I felt I had to. Most people who are not of Scottish origins choose the tartan they wear by color first and then the symbolism, honour or history behind it. How many people go to a website and look at the tartan colors and then the clan assosiated with it. For instance I like the Buchanan Tartan colors and decide to purchase a kilt. I have no Scottish ancestory, that I know of, but I lived in Pennsylvania at one time and our 15th President, James Buchanan was from PA. I also dated a girl who's mother was a Buchanan. But you know, I live in New Mexico now and I no longer date that girl. BUT I LIKE THE BUCHANAN TARTAN! So I'm buying it because I like the colors. Of course, I research the tartan after I've decided on the tartan, learn about the clan and it's history, but in the end I like the colors and that's why I decided on that tartan.

How many people would wear an ugly tartan, not that there is any, and be confident and proud? Who's to say what anyone can or can't wear a tartan JUST because they like the colors? To alot of us non-Scots, it's about the freedom to be able to wear what we want to wear.

[Mr. MacDougall]

How many people would wear an ugly tartan, not that there is any, and be confident and proud? (...) To alot of us non-Scots, it's about the freedom to be able to wear what we want to wear.

Or not wear. I have to confess, I feel the MacDougall tartan was designed by someone color-blind. The colors don't go together, to my eye, and the sett is far too busy. It's barely acceptable in some of the large-sett versions. But... I still wear it on occasion, out of a feeling of loyalty to the alfar.

[majdan]

In the end it is only cloth after all. Now just speaking for me and only me, I'm sure others have their own POV and that is perfectly fine with me, but the kilt is about the clan. I wear it to show solidarty with my old folk. Do you really think that anyone would wear either of the two Montgomery tartans otherwise. There are many other tartans that I like much better but none represent my clan. I guess it's sort of like gang colors, or team colors, or branch colors(for us army officers) in a way. That's why I have so many things in Green and Yellow(University of Oregon) and Light Blue (The Infantry color). That's just my view of things and I don't expect anyone to feel the same. That being said I like it when people wear the Montgomery tartan just because they like it. It makes me feel good that someone would find our tartan visually atractive.

[macwilkin]

In the end it is only cloth after all. Now just speaking for me and only me, I'm sure others have their own POV and that is perfectly fine with me, but the kilt is about the clan. I wear it to show solidarty with my old folk. Do you really think that anyone would wear either of the two Montgomery tartans otherwise. There are many other tartans that I like much better but none represent my clan. I guess it's sort of like gang colors, or team colors, or branch colors(for us army officers) in a way. That's why I have so many things in Green and Yellow(University of Oregon) and Light Blue (The Infantry color). That's just my view of things and I don't expect anyone to feel the same. That being said I like it when people wear the Montgomery tartan just because they like it. It makes me feel good that someone would find our tartan visually atractive.

You're not alone, majdan, in your sentiments. For me, the kilt is about clan and heritage as well; whilst there are some other clan's tartans that I really like (Mackenzie of Seaforth), I just can't bring myself to do it.

Of course, the district tartan is always a good choice, especially for a second kilt -- either the district your family came from, or the state/province where they settled.

Regards,

Todd

[Peter C.]

I go back to sports associations:

Each team has "their" fans. Some fans are loyal to one team and one only. One guy I work with pulls only for New England Patriots (American Football) and Boston Red Sox (Baseball). Like some are members of one clan only and wear one tartan only. While others pull for several teams. I pull for Atlanta Falcons and then for Carolina Panthers (odd as their the Falcon's big rival), Green Bay Packers, and Washington Redskins. Each for different reasons. Likewise, I consider myself tied to several clans and feel a "right" to wear several tartans. I have different reasons for the tartans. Most are by blood (MacNeil, Wallace, Wilson/Gunn, Gordon/Todd) or residency (Georgia, Carolina, American), while others are out of historical respect (MacGregor-> Rob Roy), friends (Stewart, Campbell, etc), in-laws (Loud MacLeod/Lewis), or memberships (MacBubba/Culloden) to name a few. I have a reason to want to where a particular tartan, just as to pull for a certain sports team. To many, green and yellow stands for either Green Bay Packers or Oakland A's, though it is/was also the colors of Team Lotus and the livery colors of MacNeil of Barra.

One is "free" to wear what he or she wants, but these patterns have associations that virtually call for explanation. To wear these colors is tantamount to wearing a sports team colors in that one is associated with that team. If I wear Green Bay stuff, I respond that I have a lot of respect for a team that is from an area the size of "Greenville/Spartanburg" (approx. 100,000), but owns the franchise and is sold out for my lifetime, besides the great history and image of the team. In a sense, the Packers are Wisconson. Both clan tartans and sports teams have a sense of belonging that draws in "locals" and outsiders who want to share the "association" with the "insiders." The same is true of real football (soccor), baseball, racing (red and black in NASCAR->Dale Jr. and light blue and yellow in F1->Renault), and ANY other team sport.

No one wears tartan for no reason, unless it is a flannel shirt. To most, "I like the colors" is a laughable and idiotic answer. The clan would be offended at that. While a better answer is: "I am facinated by the life and the myths about Rob Roy MacGregor, especially how the myths diverge from reality, so I wear MacgGregor in respect for him, his clansmen, and their descendants." Few, but the most arrogant, MacGregors would look down at the second answer.

It is a mix of association and respect, except by the most idiotic of tartan wearers who have NO SENSE of what they are doing. (This does not apply to any I've met here, as far as I know. Interest in the history and a sense of respect is a large part of the reason most of us are here. Otherwise, none of us would have bothered.)

That is the "middle ground" and what ACTUALLY happens.

This is an interesting thread so I decided to read it from the start. I couldn't believe what I read.

McWage, my next kilt coincidentally is going to be a MacGregor. I must say it's not because I like the colours. It's certainly not because I am facinated by the myths of Rob Roy Macgregor. It's actually because Fraser and Kirkbright were selling it cheap as a remnant and I could afford it. I'm not going to interupt my history studies to study the Clan MacGregor just because that is the tartan F and K were selling as a remnant. Maybe I should study the history of the other clothes that I wear. If I was wearing my clothes as a costume I would want to know it's history, is that what you are doing?

Does this make me one of the most idiotic of tartan wearers who have no sense of what they are doing? These are very strong words as there are actually no rules. Do we have to bide by YOUR rules? Are YOU the tartan police?

I am English without any Scottish blood that I know of but I haven't searched for any. They say my name entitles me to wear lamont but my name is definately English. I was raised in England and Scotland. My best ever friend was Scottish (he didn't wear a kilt, I did). The indiginous Scots are lovely people and love it when visitors wear kilts. No one in Scotland or England has ever asked why I am wearing a particular tartan.

As stated by Phil earlier in this thread. Quote:"I find it interesting that it is mainly non-Scottish members who have strong views on this matter".

The last Scottish wedding I played the pipes at, only the grooms grandfather had a kilt in the family tartan, they were mcCullochs, their tartan was not available to hire so all the men in the grooms family chose kilts that they thought would look good on them from what was available. There were lots of different tartans, all chosen because they liked the colours. If it is good enough for the Scots it is good enough for me.

peter

[RK-REX]

Idiot number two here.

Probably be one for the rest of my life too because with the exception of one district tartan from Ireland, I've got not a single tie to any other in existence. Oh, I would just love to have someone tell me I can't wear a tartan because it's "theirs".

This is getting ridiculous....

[Barclay]

Oh, I would just love to have someone tell me I can't wear a tartan because it's "theirs".

All of my kilts are tartans that have meaning for me, and none of them are family tartans from either side. In fact, the last family kilt that I had, my Mum paid for when I was about 13.

One of my favorite kilts is a Colquhoun 8-yarder that I bought from MAC Newsome (he did not make it - it was ordered from another vendor and the purchaser returned it for some reason. It fit, Matt gave me a deal on it - I have a nice 8 yard kilt.) At a games event last year I had a man from that Clan come up and talk to me and ask my Clan affiliation. I told him that I had none, and I just really liked the tartan and got a good deal on the kilt. He told me that as a Clan officer he was ordering me to take the kilt off and give it to him. I didn't know how to respond till with a little wink he followed up with "we look like we're about the same size". He didn't care, neither do I. I'll wear his clan colours, and I'll wear them proudly, simply because I like that tartan.

I'm with you guys - and if I see someone wearing my Clan tartans (Barclay and MacQueen/Chattan), I'll raise a glass, give 'em a nod and recognize them as a kinsman by virtue of being in my Clan colours, regardless of name or bloodline.

[Peter C.]

All of my kilts are tartans that have meaning for me, and none of them are family tartans from either side. In fact, the last family kilt that I had, my Mum paid for when I was about 13.

One of my favorite kilts is a Colquhoun 8-yarder that I bought from MAC Newsome (he did not make it - it was ordered from another vendor and the purchaser returned it for some reason. It fit, Matt gave me a deal on it - I have a nice 8 yard kilt.) At a games event last year I had a man from that Clan come up and talk to me and ask my Clan affiliation. I told him that I had none, and I just really liked the tartan and got a good deal on the kilt. He told me that as a Clan officer he was ordering me to take the kilt off and give it to him. I didn't know how to respond till with a little wink he followed up with "we look like we're about the same size". He didn't care, neither do I. I'll wear his clan colours, and I'll wear them proudly, simply because I like that tartan.

I'm with you guys - and if I see someone wearing my Clan tartans (Barclay and MacQueen/Chattan), I'll raise a glass, give 'em a nod and recognize them as a kinsman by virtue of being in my Clan colours, regardless of name or bloodline.

That is like a breath of fresh air Barclay. And funny.

I was reading another thread where some established multi-kilted xmarkers were discussing a picture of a kilt with comments like, what a lovely tartan thats going on my wish list. They are saying that they are going to get a kilt because they like the tartan, which is saying in not so many words that they like the colours. That is certainly my main reason for getting a kilt in any particular tartan.

Peter