No more Kilts for me

[Mike1]

I truly feel that the fellows that are the most concerned about other fellows not wearing their kilts full-time are the ones that are worried about standing out in the crowd. If you're one kiltie in a room, you're going to come under scrutiny. If you are one of ten kilties in a room, then you don't bear the scrutiny alone.

I think Chris' ideas about kilts being 'melted down' into an Americanized garment is more wishful thinking than anything else. And his example of 'Texas Wear' fully supports my theory. Scots were wearing kilts in this country long before Texas and its 'Wear' came into the picture. If 'Texan Wear' has been bastardized in so short a period of time, how has the traditional Scots kilt managed to survive?

Sure, you're going to have fad cultures pick up the kilt, but fads come and fads go. I was one of the non-conformists of the 60's that had tie-dyed shirts, bell-bottom jeans, hair half-way down my back and a surplus jacket. We non-conformists were easy to spot, because we had all conformed to one another. That style went away, shortly thereafter.

The difference is that I was of Scots descent then, just as surely as I am now. The heart is Highland, not a fad.

There are a considerable handful of full-time kilties on this forum that rarely mention that fact about themselves. Then there are others that celebrate the weekly anniversaries of their decision to be kilted full-time. Some things are important to some people and mean little to nothing to others. The important aspect of it all is that we all have the freedom (note: lower case 'f') to make our own decisions and to select whatever it is we choose to wear.

For those kilties that go on and on about 'Freedom', I wonder if you wear shoes. Have you never experienced how 'Free' you can be without footwear?

I'm sitting here typing this in a pair of jeans that are as comfortable as an old friend. No binding whatsoever, I bought them to fit, not to be enslaved by a fad style. And since sitting down, I've not had a single concern about a wrinkled pleat. When I leave for the salt mine, there'll be no issue about the closure device on a sporran, or whether my hand fits into my sporran well - my keys are in my pocket. At no point during the day am I going to have to worry about accidentally answering The Question for customers or co-workers and I fully trust that none will ask The Question. I'm afraid there'll be no pictures of me wearing today's jeans, but you'll have to live with that. I don't know if it is windy outside or not, but it is a non-issue, because even a hurricane couldn't blow the hems of my pant legs up enough to embarrass anyone.

Now if you've chosen to wear a kilt today, I say good on you and wear it well.

[Chris Webb]

Obviously kilts will always be associated with Scotland. But the phenomenon I've described is indeed taking place ... if it wasn't then none of us would be wearing our kilts in anything but the Scottish way.

Even folks here who hold dear the traditions of Scotland and all that makes the hertitage of Scotland so rich are becoming more and more willing to strap on a non-tradtional kilt and wear it in non-traditional ways. Not all, of course, but more and more.

Flag kilts, rainbow kilts, even in England the traditions are slowly giving way to modern uses and trends. Ham's photo album is the best evidence I can offer as to the increasing variations of acceptable kilts and kilt outfits, and this is in England, which has become a bit of a Melting Pot as well. Is this a bad thing? It really doesn't matter, no amount of disagreement will stop it. I wish we could all be more like Hamish, myself included ... he's the most balanced man among us.

I never said that any kiltman was better than any other (except maybe Ham, LOL)... and I appreciate the Scottish roots of kilts and acknowledge that kilts were introduced to America by Scotsmen and members of Scottish Heritage Groups. I only contend that once that introduction was made that a relatively small number of Americans, with their steady blending of many heritages and traditions, immediately began to make the kilt their own, often against the grain of the rest of American society.

Someone said my ideas are not new, they were right, they're not. I learned about the 'American Melting Pot' in Junior High School. If you don't believe me regarding the direction kilts are going you only need to look up 'kilt' in Wikepedia (sp?). There will always be a select few who will celebrate the specifics of the Scottish kilt tradition, thankfully. I have already said that this phenomenon can be disconcerting to some folks, as evidenced but the reaction to my post ... whether one adheres to tradition or simply wears kilts because they want to I can only say that I am happy that they all ....

Kilt On.

Chris Webb

[NewKilt]

Believe what you want to, Chris, but the kilt will not lose its Scottish roots and heritage, no matter how much you wish it.

Todd

Todd, I agree. Case in point: Yesterday I wore a Utilikilt Heather Grey Mocker, white polo, grey crew socks, and white sneakers. I was asked several times if I was Scottish. I've had the same thing happen wearing an Amerikilt.

Now, I also wear traditional wool tartans as well. But I think whether a kilt is a non-traditional or a traditional, the public will still make that association with Scotland. That's certainly ok with me - thanks to the Scots I enjoy wearing a variety of these wonderful garments. And when I wear my Ireland's National or Irish American tartans I wear them with great pride in my heritage.

Darrell

[Mike1]

I wish we could all be more like Hamish, myself included ... he's the most balanced man among us.

Oh, OK, now I get the thrust of your theory. I had completely missed it until now.

Those of us that wear a single tartan because of its significance to our heritage are un-balanced. (Hey, Todd, you be un-balanced and I'll be un-hinged, does that sound fair? )

I only contend that once that introduction was made that a relatively small number of Americans, with their steady blending of many heritages and traditions, immediately began to make the kilt their own, often against the grain of the rest of American society.

Like penny-loafers?
Like double-breasted suits?
Like tie-dye shirts?
Like bell-bottom jeans?

All of which have come and gone, only to come back again. And look at all the plain, white t-shirts that are still being sold and worn. And all the straight leg jeans. Fads come, fads go and fads don't add up to tradition.

If you don't believe me regarding the direction kilts are going you only need to look up 'kilt' in Wikepedia (sp?).

Now THERE'S a reliable source of information to base a theory on. You are aware that any 'authority' can edit Wiki articles?

[bubba]

Even folks here who hold dear the traditions of Scotland and all that makes the hertitage of Scotland so rich are becoming more and more willing to strap on a non-tradtional kilt and wear it in non-traditional ways. Not all, of course, but more and more.
Chris Webb

I don't see the traditional wear giving way to modern concepts, more like coexisting. Wear your kilts when and how you want to wear them. They are, after all, clothing. Yes, I wear mine full time and enjoy doing so. Others may not have that option or may not wish to do so. It's entirely irrelevant. Yeah, I feel a bit classy wearing a kilt and fairly well dressed, but then, I used to dress more like Larry the Cable Guy so anything is a step up. It's all about options.

[macwilkin]

I only contend that once that introduction was made that a relatively small number of Americans, with their steady blending of many heritages and traditions, immediately began to make the kilt their own, often against the grain of the rest of American society.

Actually, in the 19th century, a "native" American wouldn't be caught dead in the costume of any ethnic group, and anti-immigrant feelings ran very high. Granted, the Scots were generally more accepted than others (see Fernec Szaz's "Scots in the North American West 1790-1917" for an excellent discussion of this*) but I remember reading an article about the 79th New York Highlanders where an official of the New York State Militia criticized the adoption of "foreign" [Highland] attire by an "American" militia unit. Of course, among immigrant communities, one could display their heritage through cultural symbols without any fear of a "native" backlash. So St. Andrew's/Caledonian Societies were instrumental in preserving customs and traditions from the homeland, including the kilt.

So, if someone wore a kilt in 19th or early 20th century America, it was being done for the most part to display Scottish heritage and not to create some sort of new polygot "American" kilt.

If any country has made the kilt its own, my vote would be for Canada, but again, the majority of this is due to the large numbers of Scots who immigrated there. One good example of this is the fact that the Canadian Army took to the idea of Highland regiments in full "kit" -- with a few exceptions like the 79th, it has only been recently that the American forces have adopted the Pipes & Drums, kilts and tartan -- but the Canadians did so since beginning of the Dominion in 1867, and how many Canadian "Jocks" are actually not of Scottish descent? A good source on this is Matthew Shaw's excellent book, "Great Scots!: How the Scots created Canada" (Winnepeg: Heartland Publications, 2003):

http://www.hrtlandbooks.com/books/greatscots.htm

*http://www.oupress.com/bookdetail.as...=0-8061-3253-1

And Mike is spot on when it comes to Wikipedia -- most instructors I know have outlawed Wikipedia in their classes as a source for research projects due to its overwhelmingly unreliability in terms of accuracy, not to mention that many students plagarize Wiki entries as their own.

Cheers,

Todd

[Chris Webb]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. Mike and Todd, the chances of either of you being un-hinged or un-balanced is un-bloody-likely!! Of course, you may not consider me a good judge of such things. :rolleyes:

I don't wish for the kilt to become un-Scottish, I'm only acknowledging that it is becoming Scottish-American, at least around here. As for Wikepedia one must at least realize that many people do look to it for current information. I'd be interested in a review of its' article on kilts, that's for certain. Simply blowing it off when so many 'un-sophisticates' take it at face value may well leave us looking un-balanced, though probably not un-hinged.

Cajunscot, I enjoyed your history lesson but I'm referring mostly to the modern kilt movement, the late 20th Century until now, say starting about the time SportKilt was established, or when Wikepedia started to become a popular source of information in pop culture. Surely men of our relative inteligence with respect to the un-enlightened trousered world must be aware that when a member of Korn starts wearing a kilt then we've drifted into the Wikepedia domain. :rolleyes:

As for the Texas Outfit, Mike is right in that it is not nearly as old as the kilt. But Texas, a place where over 70% of the counties are named after men of Scottish descent, has the same intense commitment to it's traditions and heritage as Scottish folk. The plaid in a Western shirt finds its' inspirtation in the tartans of ancestors long dead. All traditions get older as the years go by ... though the traditions of Texas will never be as old as those of Scotland, obviously, they are traditions none the less and have become as recognizable around the world as any traditions of Scotland. Of course, I'm a Texan, so what would you expect me to say.

I'll never forget standing in Brussels and looking at that statue/fountain of that little boy peeing into a pool ... he was dressed up like a Texan, hat, boots, vest. I still chuckle every time I think of it. I'm guessing they've got a Kilt outfit for that statue as well. Either way, I doubt there was a person who walked by that foutain that day that didn't recognize the origin of that cute little outfit.

Last, for Mike, I know how you feel about having always been Scottish, so to speak. I was raised dressed up Texan. I remember well when the movie, Urban Cowboy, came out and then all things Texan became a huge fad. Of course, the fad ended ... that's when Dolly Pardon sang her song, "I was country when country wasn't cool." I've still got my full Texas outfit and I'm as proud to wear it as any Scottish Piper is to wear his kilt in all its splendor. You are right, sir, fads come and go, but those of us for whom the kilt is not a fad each new day brings one more chance, whether taken or not, to ....

Kilt On.

Chris Webb

PS Bubba, I think I will forever see you as Larry the Cable Guy in a kilt. Don't worry, in my Redneck world that's a mighty high compliment.

[davedove]

I'll never forget standing in Brussels and looking at that statue/fountain of that little boy peeing into a pool ... he was dressed up like a Texan, hat, boots, vest. I still chuckle every time I think of it. I'm guessing they've got a Kilt outfit for that statue as well. Either way, I doubt there was a person who walked by that foutain that day that didn't recognize the origin of that cute little outfit.

The Manneken Pis (the little statue) is the symbol of Brussels and has an extensive wardrobe. Many notable people have donated clothes for the statue, often national or regional costumes (I think I heard he even has an Elvis costume). I'm sure somewhere along the line someone donated a kilt.

Of course, the fad ended ... that's when Dolly Pardon sang her song, "I was country when country wasn't cool."

I hate to nitpick, but it's Dolly Parton, but she didn't sing the song; Barbara Mandrell did, with a short bit by George Jones.

Anyway, back to the thread.

[Chris Webb]

Oops, at least my sentiments were right. Thanks.

Chris Webb

EDIT: I've got an in-law from England, his name is Peter and he is forever trying to get me to say his name right. For the life of me I can't help but pronouce it Peder. One day he met my daughter, Katy, and he of course pronounced it, Katy. I said, "No, her name is Kady." He looked at me, grinned ear to ear and said, "You got me."

I would have sworn by the silver in my buckle that Dolly's last name was Pardon. I called and asked my Mom to make sure and, like all others from this neck of the woods, she kept on sayin' it's Pardon, Son, I just know it's Pardon. Well, it may be spelled 'Parton' but to those of us who hold her as the Queen of the South her name will always be Pardon.

[macwilkin]

I don't wish for the kilt to become un-Scottish, I'm only acknowledging that it is becoming Scottish-American, at least around here. As for Wikepedia one must at least realize that many people do look to it for current information. I'd be interested in a review of its' article on kilts, that's for certain. Simply blowing it off when so many 'un-sophisticates' take it at face value may well leave us looking un-balanced, though probably not un-hinged.

Cajunscot, I enjoyed your history lesson but I'm referring mostly to the modern kilt movement, the late 20th Century until now, say starting about the time SportKilt was established, or when Wikepedia started to become a popular source of information in pop culture. Surely men of our relative inteligence with respect to the un-enlightened trousered world must be aware that when a member of Korn starts wearing a kilt then we've drifted into the Wikepedia domain.

Chris,

Perhaps I'm not understanding your meaning here: are you saying that those early immigrants who maintained their connections to Scotland through Scottish culture, such as Highland attire, while at the same time became citizens of the Republic, were not "Scottish-Americans"? I certainly see them as that; proud of their past, but also proud of being citizens of the United States. Please correct me if I am interpreting this wrong, as I have been known to do that on many occasions (just ask my dear wife!)

As far as Wikipedia goes, just because it is easily accessible doesn't mean that it is a good source. Part of my job as a librarian is to educate students that there are much better resources out there than it; they may not be as easily accessible, but from an accuracy standpoint, they are much, much more reliable. As someone who attended college, I'm sure you value accurate and reliable resources just as much as I do. That was my point.

Todd