Barclay, Davis & Gunn

[macwilkin]

The Gunns traditional lands are in Caithness, and the clan has been associated more with the Sinclairs, Mackays and Keiths, the latter being in a particularly bloody feud over land claims. The Barclays were Norman in origin, and the Davidsons have ties to the Comyns (my clan, the Cummings) and the Clan Chattan Confederation. Please note that this is a very brief summary of these three clan's history and should not be taken as "complete".

I wouldn't look for a tie between clans because of the tartans, since the clan tartan is a relatively modern innovation (early 19th century) and many clans "share" tartans with little or no connection. Matt Newsome has written an article about this that should help you:

http://www.albanach.org/tartanname.htm

The same with the motto -- many armigers share mottos or even the crest (the badge inside the buckle-and-strap) with no connection or tie. Alliances, usually through marriage, might be displayed on the arms, as in the case of our Chiefs, the Gordon-Cummings, who married into the House of Gordon.

Matt, anything you want to add to this? Have I missed something?

Cheers,

Todd

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would only add that to the untrained eye (by which I simply mean one that isn't used to looking critically at tartan design) a lot of tartans look very similar simply because they use the same colors. This may lead one to beleive there is a connection when in fact there isn't any.

For example, a lot of people think that the MacLean of Duart tartan looks just like the Royal Stewart. They are both red-based tartans, and since most people are familiar with the red Royal Stewart, they tend to associate any red-based tartan with that one.

In the case of Gunn and Barclay hunting, the basic colors are blue and green with a little red. But this is also true of hundreds of other tartans. Which is why you yhought Davidson so similar.

If you look past the colors, though, to the design itself, you'll see that Davidson really has little in common with these other two. Barclay and Gunn do have certain similarities. Both have equal amounts of green and blue, with the green bisected by a red line, and the blue bisected by a green line. But the Gunn also separates the green and blue portion with a wide section of black.

Gunn actually has more in common with Mackay, and this makes sense as the clans Gunn and Mackay were neighbors. In this case, I think the similarities between Gunn and Barclay hunting are a coincidence. I think in the case of Barclay, the hunting is a simple color change of the more popular Barclay Dress tartan, which is the same design, only in yellow and black. Both come from the Vestiarium Scoticum, which was published in 1842. Most of the tartan designs in that book are very simple grid-like patterns, the result of them being designed by artists drawing on a page rather than weaving in cloth.

Aye,
Matt

[Tattoo Bradley]

Henderson at Caithness is a Sept of Gunn. And, I've also read, that the Henderson and Davidson tartans were "submitted" or "picked" or what-have-you at the same time... there is a very clear similarity in the Henderson/Davidson tartans.

[HeathBar]

When I saw Dirkskene's badge there was some similarity between them. To the untrained eye, they might look to be the same. I've seen enough Barclay badges to know that the manufacturer of that badge has taken some artistic liberties. Therefore a Barclay badge from one manufacturer might look similar to a Gunn badge from a different manufacturer I had never really noticed the Gunn badge or it similarities before. I was curious as to the origin of the clan crest or the cheif's badge. Who designed them?

[Scott Gilmore]

... Gunn actually has more in common with Mackay, and this makes sense as the clans Gunn and Mackay were neighbors. ...

Taking this thought a step further, clan Mackay tartan has served as the basis for at least one other clan tartan, and if you were to just look at a map, it might not make much sense either. Remember, Mackay is a Scottish mainland (Sutherland) clan.

Look at the similarity between these two tartans.
. . .
. . . . . . Mackay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Morrison

The Morrison is nothing more than the Mackay tartan replicated faithfully, but with a red central tram line. Considering that clan Morrison is generally thought of as an Outer Hebridean clan, most people aren't aware of the close ties that existed between the two since the MacLeods chased the Morrisons off of Lewis a few hundred years ago (tribal war -- them #@%$! MacLeods!).

I've heard conjecture that this is because the same weavers made cloth for both clans and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact, the Morrison tartan was chosen very deliberately at the beginning of the twentieth century at a time when no one knew what tartan clan Morrison wore back before the Proscription Act of 1746. Because of their close ties, the Morrison tartan was based on the Mackay tartan, which was well known.

Later, while renovating a house on Lewis, a bible dated 1747 inscribed with the name Morrison was found bricked in behind a chimney. It was wrapped in this tartan:



Since then another sample of Morrison tartan was found dating from 1745. It is almost, but not exactly identical to the red-based example shown above (it had only one central green tram line, not two).

The point is that sometimes even when there are similarities between tartans, it takes some research to find out whether it's anything more than incidental, and if not, the real reasons.

One other lesson from all this is that back when people actually wore locally woven tartan cloth every day, they probably didn't always worry that the tartan was exactly just so. "EEK, your tartan is missing a tram line!" ... swoon ...

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

[Tattoo Bradley]

Taking this thought a step further, clan Mackay tartan has served as the basis for at least one other clan tartan, and if you were to just look at a map, it might not make much sense either. Remember, Mackay is a Scottish mainland (Sutherland) clan.

Look at the similarity between these two tartans.
. . .
. . . . . . Mackay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Morrison

The Morrison is nothing more than the Mackay tartan replicated faithfully, but with a red central tram line. Considering that clan Morrison is generally thought of as an Outer Hebridean clan, most people aren't aware of the close ties that existed between the two since the MacLeods chased the Morrisons off of Lewis a few hundred years ago (tribal war -- them #@%$! MacLeods!).

I've heard conjecture that this is because the same weavers made cloth for both clans and all sorts of other nonsense. In fact, the Morrison tartan was chosen very deliberately at the beginning of the twentieth century at a time when no one knew what tartan clan Morrison wore back before the Proscription Act of 1746. Because of their close ties, the Morrison tartan was based on the Mackay tartan, which was well known.

Later, while renovating a house on Lewis, a bible dated 1747 inscribed with the name Morrison was found bricked in behind a chimney. It was wrapped in this tartan:



Since then another sample of Morrison tartan was found dating from 1745. It is almost, but not exactly identical to the red-based example shown above (it had only one central green tram line, not two).

The point is that sometimes even when there are similarities between tartans, it takes some research to find out whether it's anything more than incidental, and if not, the real reasons.

One other lesson from all this is that back when people actually wore locally woven tartan cloth every day, they probably didn't always worry that the tartan was exactly just so. "EEK, your tartan is missing a tram line!" ... swoon ...

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

That Morrison red is still on my wish list, Scott.

[Oatmeal Savage]

***, that is a gorgeous tartan.

Kevin

That Morrison red is still on my wish list, Scott.

[Scott Gilmore]

***, that is a gorgeous tartan.

Thank you Bradley and Kevin. When ordering, I chose the 1745 single tramline version. To my eye it had a better rhythm -- a better balance of spaces. I know that may not make sense, but here's a snapshot just the same.

Back on subject though, when you look closely at the two tartans side by side (I looked at swatches side by side when ordering the kilt), you can see the difference. Yet the two versions of the tartans were woven a mere two years apart. My take on it is that weavers simply wove something pretty much like the clan tartan, and variations were either unimportant (less so than now, anyway), OR deliberately woven to be subtly distinct versions of the same tartan.

The point is that I think we're a lot more wrapped up in the exactitudes of tartan counting now than they were when they wore the stuff every day to keep warm.

Regards,
Scott Gilmore

[sirdaniel1975]

Similarities between Gunn & MacKay tartans.

Gunn


MacKay


The thread counts on the two are slightly different. In appearance the red stripe is exchanged for a black (or vice versa).

MacKay Thread count: G6, B28, G4, K28, G28, K6

Gunn Thread Count: G2, B24, G2, K24, G24, R4

More on the relation between Gunn & MacKay:
Williamson's, Wilson's, Henderson's (three popular surnames with clan Gunn) are said to have lived in MacKay territory and paid rent there in. Clan MacKay also claims Williamson as a sept. Both clans feuded with each other most of the time. In 1585 the name Gunn was outlawed by the Earl of Caithness and all Gunn's were hunted by his forces. MacKay's were hired by the Earl, through chance, some of the Earl's forces unintentially caused the Gunn's and the MacKay's to from an alliance (of the top of my head, I believe it involved cattle). Anyway they defeated the Earl's forces at Altgowne (Allt-gamhna). This happens to be one of the stories of archery in the Highlands by the way.
In 1586 the Gunn's were defeated at Loch Broom by the Earl of Sutherland and remained loyal to the Sutherlands ever after. In 1745, The Sutherlands were the major government clan of the north, and the Gunn's and MacKay's followed. The key relations between these two clans are; territory, surname Williamson, feuds, then the alliance. Both clans also have the surname Neilson on their sept list.

the link to some of the above info:
http://www.electricscotland.com/webc...lt_Camhna.html

Caithness Clan Map



Here's that Barclay Tartan:


Like Matt said, it's missing the black bands that enclose the two blue bands.

Daniel S. Williamson

[Scott Gilmore]

Similarities between Gunn & MacKay tartans. ...

Thanks for the information. Very interesting.

Regards,
Scott Gilmore