Six or Seven Celtic nations?

[MacWage]

Thanks,

So the list includes sub-sections of modern nations, even some with less "independance" than others. One part of Spain and one of France. I've heard various lists of 4 or 5 and reference to 6 and 7, but have not really researched it or tried to make a single list.

As an American, I get odd ideas of "nation," "state," and "country." Technically, all the same, but we use "state" for "territories" and regional subgroupings within our "nation." A marked distinction is made between state and nation, which I am not aware is made ANYWHERE ELSE. I wasn't sure if Brittany, Cornwall, and Galicia were under "nation," as they are notably parts of England, France, and Spain in much more sense than Ireland, Man, Wales, or Scotland. Interestingly, only the Irish are really an independant nation, and that only includes the larger part of the isle.


THANKS,

[The Wizard of BC]

Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.

[MacWage]

Please remember that the term "nation" as it is used in sthe study of history refers to a group of people that share a common language family. It has nothing to do with the nations as we know them today or as it is used politically.

True, very true.

[slohairt]

According to the Celtic League, and various other academic institutions, there are six Celtic nations that have survived into the modern era. They base this criteria on a Celtic language still being spoken in the area as well as its attendant culture.

These three nations form the Goidelic branch and their languages (Gaeilge, Gàidhlig, and Gailck, respectively) are mutually intelligible:

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Mannin)

These three nations form the Brythonic branch and their languages (Cymraeg, Kernewek, and Breizhonek) are mutually intelligible:

Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

These two groups while from the same original proto-Celtic language are not mutually intelligible (i.e. Welsh is not understood by an Irish speaker in the same way that German is not understood by an English speaker)

Galicia is not a Celtic nation. True, Celtic people inhabitated the area at one time, but they intermingled with later populations and their language (Galego) and attendant culture today is based on the Romance family of languages. No Celtic language has been spoken in the area since the 10th Century. As for loan words, there are actually more loan words of Celtic origin in English and French.
Galician separatist movements in the past have used the "Celtic" card to reinforce their differences from the dominant Castillian Spanish culture of Spain.
Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts.

France is not a Celtic nation either by this standard. They lost their Celtic culture after the Roman conquest, became thoroughly Romanised and were later conquered by Germanic peoples like the Franks.

And my parents said my degree was a waste!

Is mise le meas,

Seán Liosliath Ó hAirt

[Ruanaidh]

......Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts....

True, St. Paul wrote a letter to these Galatians.

[McClef]

At the National Eisteddfod every year they hold an international day when representatives of Celtic nations make a speech in the main tent in their own language.

Will have to list them next year!

The most common usage of Six Nations over here is to do with Rugby Union but only half of them count as Celtic - Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

England France and Italy don't count although France and England can claim Celtic portions.

[Bugbear]

Ya, what he said.

According to the Celtic League, and various other academic institutions, there are six Celtic nations that have survived into the modern era. They base this criteria on a Celtic language still being spoken in the area as well as its attendant culture.

These three nations form the Goidelic branch and their languages (Gaeilge, Gàidhlig, and Gailck, respectively) are mutually intelligible:

Ireland (Éire)
Scotland (Alba)
Isle of Man (Mannin)

These three nations form the Brythonic branch and their languages (Cymraeg, Kernewek, and Breizhonek) are mutually intelligible:

Wales (Cymru)
Cornwall (Kernow)
Brittany (Breizh)

These two groups while from the same original proto-Celtic language are not mutually intelligible (i.e. Welsh is not understood by an Irish speaker in the same way that German is not understood by an English speaker)

Galicia is not a Celtic nation. True, Celtic people inhabitated the area at one time, but they intermingled with later populations and their language (Galego) and attendant culture today is based on the Romance family of languages. No Celtic language has been spoken in the area since the 10th Century. As for loan words, there are actually more loan words of Celtic origin in English and French.
Galician separatist movements in the past have used the "Celtic" card to reinforce their differences from the dominant Castillian Spanish culture of Spain.
Incidentally, there was also a place in modern-day Turkey called Galicia which was inhabited by Celts.

France is not a Celtic nation either by this standard. They lost their Celtic culture after the Roman conquest, became thoroughly Romanised and were later conquered by Germanic peoples like the Franks.

And my parents said my degree was a waste!

Is mise le meas,

Seán Liosliath Ó hAirt

[thescot]

Ya, what he said.

Yeah, well, Slohairt beat me to all the details. So . . . well, I count six!

Actually, I really always heard six, but I could never count beyond five since I didn't know about Britanny, that famous independent nation. (Just kidding PED, and welcome aboard.)

The celtic band, Seven Nations, counted six and added the US since there were so many Celtic descendents here. (I think that's their story!)

[Bugbear]

I'm not even sure why it matters, but it's like these guys know all this stuff about these things, so ya, what they said.
I do remember history classes in colege where the instructor started the first class by saying that everything we learned on the subject in all the classes before his class was wrong.
Anyway thanks for the welcome.

Yeah, well, Slohairt beat me to all the details. So . . . well, I count six!

Actually, I really always heard six, but I could never count beyond five since I didn't know about Britanny, that famous independent nation. (Just kidding PED, and welcome aboard.)

The celtic band, Seven Nations, counted six and added the US since there were so many Celtic descendents here. (I think that's their story!)

[TheKiltedWonder]

I think that discounting Galicia as a Celtic nation overlooks part of the preserved culture of the people. I have a friend from there who has played in many Galician groups and they always have played music that is more Celtic in nature. Furthermore he identifies himself as Spanish, but is a frequent participant at Celtic festivals, because of his self-identification with Celtic culture.
So while I definitely believe that language has a large impact on culture, in this case I don't believe that poor Galicia should be totally counted out.

And as for France, I don't think anyone was calling them Celtic. They are just the home of Brittany/some Galicians.