Hot Stuff!

[starbkjrus]

I was an advertising major for one semester, and then switched. People are quick to pigeon-hole lawyers as lairs and cheats, but in my opinion, the advertising industry is a million times world.

You've got that right!

[Colin]

Oh what a waste! The sacrilege! The carnage! A burning kilt!

But, I'm really wondering here. Wool is a natural fiber, and it burns too!

My point is both fabrics have their place and uses. As has been said, without the synthetics, some people would never be able to become kilted. In my closet I now have 1/2 synthetic, 1/4 wool blend and 1/4 wool. Each fabric is good looking! Each fabric has it's individual feel or hand. I choose which fabric I am going to wear that day by the activity of the day.

For instance, when I leave tomorrow on my trip, I will be taking four synthetics and two wools. The synthetics will generally be for day wear and the wools generally for evening. (make that five synthetic and 2 wool - I forgot the one that I will be wearing)

I should also say that I have always known, up front, what I was buying!

I would be interested in seeing a demonstration of the different fabics burning, side by side. But -

- - -Please, don't burn up any more kilts!

The Wizard of BC did a burn test on the different fabrics and posted it here somewhere. Maybe do a search for it, as it was quite informative.

[RockyR]

My first kilt had (has) that same label on it. It was an imported import. My next kilt is a Rocky special. There is a sign in his shop that says something about value will beat cheap any day. Rocky knows this, that is why he put up the sign. It was the last thing I saw wwhen I left hios shop and I believe it.

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten."

[Bob C]

But seriously, making millions by shamelessly selling life-threatening crap to adults, let alone to kids, utterly disgusts me.

What's your take on the tobacco industry?

As for the flaming demonstration, my wife's pantyhose would react to flames the same way. Are you advocating that all acrylic fabrics be banned?

[James MacMillan]

I, for one, have acrylic kilts, wool kilts, polyviscose kilts, and cotton canvas kilts. I, for one, have hand- and machine-sewn kilts. I, for one, have paid as little as $30 for a kilt, and as much as $500. I, for one, think there's room in the kilt industry for all kinds of kilts, and in the community for all kinds of kilties.

I may be misguided, but I think that the modern kilt wearer fits the above. There are quality synthetic fabrics and there are cheap synthetic fabrics. The olf saying that "You get what you pay for!" is still true!

I also "think there's room in the kilt industry for all kinds of kilts, and in the community for all kinds of kilties."

Well said! Thanks Mr. MacDougall.

[Nick Fiddes]

What follows is personal opinion... with apologies to anyone it offends!

First, on the issue of safety, I have to agree with Mr. MacDougall that most of us don't stand near flames on a daily basis. And I think that is exactly why such garments are so dangerous. We're not instinctively aware of their danger... It's like driving on snow. If we did so daily we'd have few accidents. So it's that time when we're strutting around a trendy nightclub feeling ever so cool as the ladies are admiring our stand-out dress sense. And we forget to be aware that the low table beside us has a candle on it. You get the rest... (remember - 20 seconds!)

As for whether plastic kilts (and let's not kid ourselves, for that's what oil-derived fibres basically are) are 'real' is, I accept, a matter of opinion. If your idea of a kilt is defined by its shape, then indeed anything goes. But if your definition, like mine, encompasses ideas of tradition and authenticity, then there is surely a hierarchy of quality.

Don't get me wrong. I have a collection of kilts of my own that include denim, leather, and one-off overprinted kilt2 specials that no one else on earth has. But these are fashion garments, in natural materials (that just don't burn remotely as easily!) which extend the kilt's heritage in exciting new directions, rather than mocking it. As such they are part of the evolving tradition. Artificial wools to me are very different -- a second-rate copy of the original, designed to deceive; they add little of merit to the tradition but only ape the real thing, and badly in my opinion.

There's also the issue of provenance. Most woollen kilting fabrics are woven in Scotland, by people who understand tartan traditions, and know how to create things like a kilting selvedge. Most cheap substitute fabrics are woven in low-cost economies where no one, frankly, gives a monkey's for all that nonsense. The patterns often look close, but are often just wrong! To anyone that knows about tartan to wear the wrong sett would be a humiliating embarrassment. (Translation: think of an LA Lakers fan shouting support for the "Cakers" if you want to get the feel!) You may well not care about this, but some of us do.

Then there's the fact that by buying imported copies instead of the real thing you are helping to destroy the traditional industry. I admit some self interest here. But I also feel genuinely aggrieved on behalf of my nation knowing that if recent trends continue the culture that not only upholds authentic tradition but is also the wellspring of much innovation will simply be destroyed. Over-dramatising? If you saw the rate at which the genuine producers were collapsing in this country due to the copyists work you might not say so. Again, you may take the view that this is inevitable and saving your cash is all that counts, and so just not care. But I do.

So I doubt I'll ever wear a plastic one as to me they will always look and feel like a cheap substitute. It's the same reason I adore butter and detest margarine, which leaves a nasty acrid taste in my throat. It's like thinking a mass-produced print is as good as the original Mona Lisa, because it looks much the same from a distance. It's like saying a tribute band is as good as seeing the Stones live. It's like... oh, you get the idea.

Artificial fibres are a necessary compromise for anyone allergic to wool (which is why Scotweb / KiltStore sells expertly made polyviscose ones ourselves). But otherwise I can only see them as second best. That's my own aesthetic judgement.

And of course I know not everyone can easily afford a full traditional kilt hand-made for them. This is a luxury product. But, in my own eyes (and I suspect most lovers of Scottish tradition would say the same) I'd have far more respect when I see someone in a slightly moth-eaten second-hand example in any old tartan than in a plastic substitute for the real thing. Same price. :-)

Okay, I'm sure I've made enough enemies now... please flame me nicely!

[Nick Fiddes]

What's your take on the tobacco industry?

As for the flaming demonstration, my wife's pantyhose would react to flames the same way. Are you advocating that all acrylic fabrics be banned?

Okay, since you ask, no I don't like the tobacco industry, nor most other drug dealers either. But despite that I believe most prohibition does more harm than good, and have no wish to ban acrylics. My posting was about public awareness, not authoritarian bans.

And I'm sorry to have to say that don't know your wife's habits well enough to comment directly (honest!) but I think in practical terms a swinging kilt is probably enormously more likely to contact a naked flame (see scenario above) than most positions she is likely to get into. But please do tell us otherwise...

[Jock Scot]

Well said Nick.

[Chef]

Unfortunately the city council in Edinburgh has done nothing to stop the tartan tat that seems to be consuming the Royal Mile, and until the proliferation of these types of shops is at least curbed than I see that there is little to be done about the situation.

Growing up close to the Royal Mile I find myself disgusted by the cheap crap that is passed off to tourists these days. There was a time (not that long ago mind you) that just saying you had you kilt made on the Royal Mile was impressive. Now with few exceptions it means cheap crap. I do believe it is only a matter of time before the city council acts however. They are coming under increasing pressure not only from the Edinburgh populace but from Parliament as well.

People are quick to pigeon-hole lawyers as lairs and cheats, but in my opinion, the advertising industry is a million times world.

Truer words were never spoken.

I don't have a problem with anyone selling the cheap kilts. For some folks, that's the only way they'll ever have a kilt of any kind.

I understand the point but respectfully disagree. There IS a place for affordable kilts made of non-wool fabric for those of us who do not have the means or inclination to wear all wool all the time. Yes, those upper end kilts are carefully hand crafted and indeed a work of art. But to say that those are the only "true kilts" is not fair. Many people have been introduced to kilts by trying affordable acrylic kilts and work their way up to an all wool "tank."

I, for one, have acrylic kilts, wool kilts, polyviscose kilts, and cotton canvas kilts. I, for one, have hand- and machine-sewn kilts. I, for one, have paid as little as $30 for a kilt, and as much as $500. I, for one, think there's room in the kilt industry for all kinds of kilts, and in the community for all kinds of kilties.

Personally I think we should use a word other than cheap when we are discussing good inexpensive kilts. There is definitely a place for "value" kilts; examples being Stillwater's Standard or Heavyweight or Rocky's casual kilts (and others) but these are far and away better garments than the cheap cr*p being passed off by Gold Brothers and others like them on the Royal Mile. I realise they sell more than these, but they sell plenty of what is being referred to here.

Whether it's machine stitched in Pakistan or made from leftover tablecloth material it is not possible to make a proper kilt for the price of a cheap pair of pants and it doesn't matter whether it is a traditionally styled tartan kilt or a new style Amerikilt or Utilikilt. Ask any of our kit makers there is simply too much work involved even if it isn't a custom made kilt.

The tourist trap cheap kilts on the Royal Mile barely pass as a kilt from across the street, never mind if you are within 20 feet. With a possible very few exceptions I do not believe that there will be any sizeable increase in kilt wear because of the sales of these. Most of the ones sold will never see the light of day except as jokes. I've spoken to a few store clerks who sell them and trust me these kilts are not being bought for serious reasons.

There is a market for value kilts and I hope it grows, but this cr*p should be relegated to the skip!

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten."

A true sage

As for the flaming demonstration, my wife's pantyhose would react to flames the same way. Are you advocating that all acrylic fabrics be banned?

Not all acrylics are as flammable as this, and acrylics can be treated to resist flame, of course that makes them slightly more expensive. A kilt or any skirt is more likely to come in contact with an open flame (i.e. fire place) or another ignition source (i.e. portable heater) than a close fitting garment like pants or pantyhose, so very flammable materials should probably not be made into kilts or other skirts.

And of course I know not everyone can easily afford a full traditional kilt hand-made for them. This is a luxury product. But, in my own eyes (and I suspect most lovers of Scottish tradition would say the same) I'd have far more respect when I see someone in a slightly moth-eaten second-hand example in any old tartan than in a plastic substitute for the real thing. Same price. :-)

Only one word needed....AMEN

[Hamish]

............................
Okay, I'm sure I've made enough enemies now... please flame me nicely!

I see no enemies, Nick. In my opinion, every word you have written there is absolutely true. Very well stated, Sir.