Hands Aff Oor Kilts!

[Glen C]

Didn't anyone notice this line from the original Independent artical "A typical adult Scottish kilt uses about eight yards of tartan wool and the hem sits just below the knee." If that's a "Scottish kilt" I'll keep waiting for my Matt Newsome.

[McMurdo]

Steady.

Why should I be Steady? This is my heritage, a heritage I happen to be proud of. I've said it before but I see it bears repeating. I will not tell you what to wear unless someone is looking for advice, I would never think to dictate to you what your views should be, have the decency to do the same for me.

We are all going to have our own opinions sir, my opinion is that a cheap kilt does nothing to honour my heritage, therefore I am not interested in collecting them.

To many people on the forum the chief motive to wearing the kilt is for comfort, by and large I find this to be an American attitude, for me and many others the chief reason for wearing the kilt is heritage so buying a "kilt" from the likes of the Gold Brothers or for that matter any shops carrying "tartan tat" is not my cup of tea.

One other thing that I think bears repeating at this juncture:

Advice for every kilt wearer
"The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed." -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.

[Chef]

I think this is a wonderful idea to help protect the Scottish kilt industry. I do understand those who feel wonderful kilt makers not in Scotland are being slighted but I don't believe that is the case.

I actually think Champagne is a very good analogy to what we have here because we are talking about a product that must be produced from specific materials, in a specific area using a specific method. If all this is done it is called Champagne. That does not mean that other sparkling wines are not as good, just that they don't meet all the criteria. In fact many sparkling wines are made using "methode champenoise" which is the same time consuming and expensive method used when making champagne.

I could see Barb and Matt etc. describing their kilts as "Made with traditional Scottish methods and materials". No cheap tartan tat could claim that no matter where it is sold. The only thing it would be saying is that it was not made in Scotland but that like "methode champenoise" it is made with the same care and quality.

I would be interested to know what our kiltmakers think of this though.

[SteveB]

Regarding the Independent article:
"Worn below the knees" three of the posters of comment on the web site pointed out that Scots tradition is the TOP of the knee.
I see most of the objection to the word "Scottish" being in the name of some of the garments being sold in the tat shops, that are not so clearly imported, and from other than traditional Scots material. Scots Whiskey is Scots Whiskey and Kentucky Bourbon is Kentucky Bourbon
Now for the name thing. I believe in truth in labeling. Period.
This garment manufactured of 100% new wool woven in Scotland of sheep raised in Scotland. This kilt hand sewn by (insert kiltmaker here) in Edinburgh, Scotland. OR this kilt is both machine and hand sewn by (insert kiltmaker here) in Dumfrees, Scotland. OR This kilt machine made by (insert company name here) Glascow.
This garment is 100% acrylic fibre, manufactured in Pakistan. For distribution by Gold Bros.

What is the problem with that.??
A better way to make the point would simply require all garments (not just kilt) sold in Scotland to be clearly labeled with the material content, and nation of manufacture.
Above label samples are not reflecting on any kilt maker or any community in Scotland, but are names derived for sample only.
That is how this US resident sees that argument.

Now for the cheap kilt discussion.
1. I have worn a kilt for occasions since age 11. Said kilt lasted for forty years and was made of Scots wool, woven in Scotland and hand sewn in Scotland. FORTY YEARS. nuff said. It cost a bundle.
2. For many people who have discovered a Scots heritage in their family tree, the idea of the kilt may require a trial. Many have been raised on that type of garment being a skirt and the connotations that go with it. An inexpensive kilt serves as an introduction to its wear without a lot of funds being expended. It also gives the kilt newbie a chance to decide that he really does not mind wearing a garment at the waist versus a little south of the hip. For some the steps are made easy here at X-Marks. A Stillwater semi-trad acrylic ****-kilt in a tartan will quickly move one to want a USA Kilts P/V in a tartan, followed by the real deal. Now that one has tried on inexpensive kilts and learned a little bit about measuring for different kilt shops, the confidence is there to contact Barb, Kathy, Matt or a kilt maker in Scotland to bespoke the genuine KILT. I have seen this evolution as people have started with Utilikilt, Amerikilt, Sport Kilt, Bearkilt, Freedom Kilt type beginnings and soon ordering from Matt, Kathy or Barb.

If The Scot Parliament does do truth in labeling, and possibly a restriction on "Scottish" word usage. All will do well and the high end kilt makers will again see real business.

Again that is my limited view from this side of the "pond".
----- Steve

[SteveB]

Lord Snooty,
Unfortunately Gold Bros and their ilk will soon label their products as:
This kilt is of Scottish design, made of equivalent materials, to traditional Scottish design standards.
I do not (yet) own a kilt by Barb, Kathy, or Matt. I have heard and seen that they are proudly labeled as their own work.

[James MacMillan]

I'm not sure what the problem is. Aren't there "Truth in Advertising" laws in the UK?

[Chef]

Lord Snooty,
Unfortunately Gold Bros and their ilk will soon label their products as:
This kilt is of Scottish design, made of equivalent materials, to traditional Scottish design standards.
I do not (yet) own a kilt by Barb, Kathy, or Matt. I have heard and seen that they are proudly labeled as their own work.

They might, however they wouldn't be able to use the term "Scottish Kilt". It was mentioned that product awareness should be increased. Yes they should and a term like "Scottish Kilt" would help a great deal. That is a very easy term to then use for that. You only need to teach the public a two word phrase for them to find the genuine article.

Other than a concern for the likes of Matt, Barb and others of their skill,l I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a problem with this.

[robthehiker]

I think I am right to say that,only whisky produced in Scotland can be called "Scotch whisky".So what is the problem with" Scottish kilts"?Only a thought.

There was an interesting trademark fight in Canada a couple of years back. From http://www.trademarkblog.ca/scotch-d...nadian-whisky/ :

"The Scotch Whisky Association is battling a Cape Breton distiller of whisky over its use of the word Glen in its trademark. The Association, which represents the owners of well known brands such as Glenfiddich, Glenlivet and Glenmorangie, is concerned that consumers will assume that Glen Breton Rare single malt whisky, produced by Glenora Distillery, is a scotch whisky.

The Association argues that the word “Glen” is too closely linked to scotch whisky for anyone other than Scottish producers to use. “Scotch Whisky” itself is a designation that is protected under the federal Trade-marks Act for use only with whisky produced in Scotland.

Now here's how Glenora describes their product:

Glen Breton Rare Canadian Single Malt Whisky is the only single malt whisky produced in Canada. It is produced by the traditional copper pot stills method using only three ingredients: Barley, Yeast and Water.

It can not be called 'Scotch' unless it is produced in Scotland, hence, Canadian Single Malt Whisky.

So does this mean that an excellent quality product that is clearly labelled as being something other than a "Scottish kilt" could still be objectionable if it were sold by a company called "Loch Ontario" (for example)?

BTW, from what I understand, the Glenora whiskey is quite good (but it's not scotch).

[Larry124]

Why should I be Steady? This is my heritage, a heritage I happen to be proud of. I've said it before but I see it bears repeating. I will not tell you what to wear unless someone is looking for advice, I would never think to dictate to you what your views should be, have the decency to do the same for me.

We are all going to have our own opinions sir, my opinion is that a cheap kilt does nothing to honour my heritage, therefore I am not interested in collecting them.

To many people on the forum the chief motive to wearing the kilt is for comfort, by and large I find this to be an American attitude, for me and many others the chief reason for wearing the kilt is heritage so buying a "kilt" from the likes of the Gold Brothers or for that matter any shops carrying "tartan tat" is not my cup of tea.

One other thing that I think bears repeating at this juncture:

Advice for every kilt wearer
"The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed." -- The Hon. Stuart Ruaidri Erskine, The Kilt & How to Wear It, 1901.

Mr. McMurdo,
My “steady” was only to this part of your post: “I am getting rather tired of the excuse ‘But this is all I could afford.’"

Sir, what I or anyone else can or cannot afford or chooses to purchase is their concern and not for your judgment as an “excuse”.

MY opinion is that economy (not “cheap” or “rubbish” or “improper”) kilts can be enjoyable and acceptable.

[Beertigger]

Full marks to those who give accurate information on their labels.

Trouble is we know that many do not and as long as such information is voluntary they will keep on using misleading stuff. The "good guys" already proudly proclaim such information, others need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into conformity.

It's not supposed to be "voluntary." Any clothing imported into the U.S. is legally required to bear labels stating country of manufacture and material content.

It seems that most kiltmakers do not meet this requirement.