Family Name and Clan

[actualrealproperscot]

If I'm correct and if my ancestry possesses the family name that matches a sept or a clan, I submit I'm empowered to wear the tartan of that clan. I understand this to be true from the Clan Chief's web site and believe I can safetly say that several if not many others on this site agree.

Is there some flaw in my assumption?

The clan system is dead, the clan system has ceased to exist for many, many years. Clan societies etc. nowdays are nothing more than a club for people with similar sounding last names. In scotland people pick out tartans by what colours and patterns they like. ANYONE can wear any clan tartan wether they are chinese, english or scottish.

[actualrealproperscot]

One can belong to a clan by descent, area affiliation, or election - you can decide (elect) to affiliate, for whatever reason. Traditionally one would have to approach the clan Chief. Nowadays, it's becoming more common to find people who just decide that they're going to be part of that clan and carry on as if they were. Of course, if one wants to join the clan society/association, then one would probably have to go through the clan Chief.

What clans are you speaking off ?, this really is over romantacised nonsense. People belonged to a clan because they fough for the clan chief in times of war in retrun for their own proteciton and land rights. I doubt sincerely that the clan chief stated ' aye, ye are all in my clan, including our future american brothers when they are born 200 years from now'.

If clans DID exist then you wouldnt be in one because you are not scottish, you just have a scottish last name.

[sirdaniel1975]

There are so many comments in this thread that I agree with, even those that do not agree with the other.

There are many degrees of realities amongst those of us who celebrate our Scottish heritage. If it wasn't for the whole mess of it all, most of what we all here appreciate would not exist or be so popular these days.

There are many people who are very comfortable reading a standard "sept list" for a "clan" and accepting the generalized association with a certain name. Whether it is accurate or not. (I personally felt motivated to do the research).

There is a certain truth in that clan societies are very accepting in the membership of persons whom happen to share a common name with the clan. I know that some clan societies don't have the greatest role call in membership.

Then there are those of us, for whatever reason feel the need to be exact. The reason might be the need to just plain know for sure. (my reason) Then there are those romantic feelings of what a highlander is/was and so on... People today seem to want that feeling of belonging to something.. People want to be somebody, they want to have a label, etc....

From my own experience, it is very rewarding to take the time and do some genealogical research. (I have actually done a lot) It will also give you something to hand down to further generations. Someone down your line will be interested.. it will happen.

[English Bloke]

I go with the 'wear what you like' school personally although I do respect those that do not; I fully understand the desire to "belong" however I wear solid-colour and tartan kilts because I like wearing kilts, they look great. ( I wear a sporran with it because I need somewhere to keep my fags and phone and a man bag doesn't cut it for me...). Then again I'm an Englishman. I have a thin (but provable) connection to Scotland as I suspect most Britons have somewhere along the line but that's not my reason for wearing a Kilt. I'm just enjoying an item of clothing that I 'discovered' more by accident than design. My guide to choice of the Kilt is, if I like it and it's within my limited budget, I'll probably buy it. I have a wish-list which has Clan association but it's not burning holes in me. Looking at the prices attached to proper kilts from uncommon weaves I can see why promoting the Clan idea is finacially desirable to those in the trade. The clan association thing, as far as I can make out, is a relatively recent invention which is losing it's credibility in Britain (as are many other established traditions). The high prices of 'real' Kilts and the advent of cheap footy kilts is partly to blame for people seeing through the mystique. You don't want to go trashing your 'Old and Rare handmade' on a Stag weekend in Amsterdam do you. That said, If the Clan thing works for you, crack on. Interesting article linked here ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sobieski_Stuart )
And it's on't t'internet, so it must be true!

[Phil]

The clan system is dead, the clan system has ceased to exist for many, many years. Clan societies etc. nowdays are nothing more than a club for people with similar sounding last names. In scotland people pick out tartans by what colours and patterns they like. ANYONE can wear any clan tartan wether they are chinese, english or scottish.

At last someone speaking sense. I know there is a strong desire among some to feel that they somehow belong to a clan but the sad truth is that they don't exist in any meaningful form and haven't since the Highland Clearances when the then clan chieftans decided that raising sheep was a more lucrative occupation and kicked all their clan members off the land. This is hardly a good reason for anyone to feel allegiance to the descendants of those who perpetrated such disgraceful acts of betrayal against their own kinsmen but time and distance have obviously proven great healers. Clan tartans are little more than a useful way of categorising the different patterns, many devised by wealthy families grown rich on the hardship of others to wear at aristocratic balls, and a particular surname can be as useful a way of deciding which one to choose as any other.

[Jock Scot]

At last someone speaking sense. I know there is a strong desire among some to feel that they somehow belong to a clan but the sad truth is that they don't exist in any meaningful form and haven't since the Highland Clearances when the then clan chieftans decided that raising sheep was a more lucrative occupation and kicked all their clan members off the land. This is hardly a good reason for anyone to feel allegiance to the descendants of those who perpetrated such disgraceful acts of betrayal against their own kinsmen but time and distance have obviously proven great healers. Clan tartans are little more than a useful way of categorising the different patterns, many devised by wealthy families grown rich on the hardship of others to wear at aristocratic balls, and a particular surname can be as useful a way of deciding which one to choose as any other.

What both Phil and A R P S have said is the truth, rather brutally put, but, in the main, nonetheless correct. I think it would help all those with Scots Highland roots to remember these facts. For me, I wear my clan tartan and only my clan tartan because I choose to, not because I have to.

[flairball]

With little exception, there is no "right" or "entitlement" to any tartan. If wearing a tartan you feel a connection to makes wearing a kilt easier than by all means make that your tartan rule, as others have done. There's nothing wrong deciding what symbolism your tartan represents either. No one is telling you that your wanting to connect with your heritage/clan is wrong, and no one should be telling the "I like the way it looks" crowd that they're wrong either.

Tartan was fashion before it was given any clan symbolism. The tartans, for the most part are owned by the mills, who are in the business of weaving, not clan indexing. A mill sells a lot more of each tartan by selling to anyone wanting the tartan, not just clan members. Yeah, economics plays a part in this debate too. This is why there are no "rights" or "entitlements" to tartan. Why would a mill limit who it could sell one of it's products to?

[sharpdressedscot]

..
If clans DID exist then you wouldnt be in one because you are not scottish, you just have a scottish last name.

So, what you're saying is, even if you have descent and heritage you can't be in a clan unless you're a real Scot?

Dude...

[gilmore]

So, what you're saying is, even if you have descent and heritage you can't be in a clan unless you're a real Scot?

Dude...

I may be mistaken, but I surmise that what is being said is that no one anywhere---regardless of ancestry---can at the moment be in a Highland clan since they haven't existed for several centuries, and when they did, they were only in the Scottish Highlands.

[Bugbear]

Ai karamba! Do you ever just want to crawl out into the desert, across the sharp, scalding hot rocks and broken glass, and forget who you are... or are not?


Sorry, it's just too much to deal with at this point.