Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[Jack Daw]

I wear them only when they are appropriate for what's above the waist.

[sydnie7]

For me, they tip the balance toward "costume." But isn't it great to live in societies where people can choose what they wish to wear, or not wear?

[Casper]

For me, they tip the balance toward "costume."

I agree with this one... I prefer either my regular dress shoes (office job), or a nice pair of polished cap-toed shoes and spats.

[BobsYourUncle]

Hamish: Ordinary, everyday brogue shoes serve me perfectly for semi and fully formal occasions, as long as they are clean and well polished and, if I am really dressed up, my Glenfinnan buckle shoes are just the answer.

I am afraid I see Ghillie Brogues, or rather their extravagant lacing, as another opportunity for the wearer to over dress. The shoes themselves are fine - just take away those ghastly laces, replace them with ordinary length ones and enjoy the uncluttered look that results.

One very real and significant drawback of these shoes is the fact that the laces can dig into your leg, and it really is not that pleasant, therefore for me I prefer buckle brogues for formal wear and just a regular everyday business shoe for casual or semi dress wear.

I actually voted yes, but feel that one should take very seriously the reservations posed by Hamish and McMurdo. Perhaps one should ask "What would a Scot living in Scotland do?", and one could take a cue from many pictorial examples on this forum and on the web. It appears that many Scots wear a dress shoe version of brogues with normal dress shoe laces, called "wing-tip brogues" here in the States. I actually prefer double soled wing tip brogues, but that's just me. Scots in Scotland apparently wear these non-ghillie laced brogues even in quite formal circumstances. I have previously posted a photo of the installation ceremony of the Finlaggen Pursuivant, showing several grand worthies wearing non-ghillie laced brogues. They look great, and quite formal, [as they should as participants in an heraldic ceremony] and in compliance with our collective idea that the kilt should be regarded as daily wear and not exclusively ceremonial costume. Reference to the several wonderful posts by Nervous Jock [as well as the Royal Regiment Orders of Dress available on line] demonstrates that Hamish's point is well taken--Scottish military ghillies are worn with regular style shoe laces laced in the military ladder pattern.

All that being said, I voted yes for several reasons: (1) "costumey" is a difficult objection to justify: it is impossible to completely avoid the aspect of costume when wearing a kilt, it is, after all, in its modern form, a "costume" invented by Victorian fashion fops [among others, the Sobieski Stuart brothers, who committed outright fraud in promoting the Victorian fashion revival]; (2) when properly coordinated with other accessories for level of formality, they are great looking and distinctive; (3) personal taste and style should govern, not some misbegotten "rule", especially where none of the so-called "rules" for modern kilt wear have any historical validity--the kilt police should stand down.



Cheers! Enjoy your ghillies, enjoy whatever you think is good! FREEDOM!

[ThistleDown]

I actually voted yes, but feel that one should take very seriously the reservations posed by Hamish and McMurdo. Perhaps one should ask "What would a Scot living in Scotland do?", and one could take a cue from many pictorial examples on this forum and on the web. It appears that many Scots wear a dress shoe version of brogues with normal dress shoe laces, called "wing-tip brogues" here in the States. Scots in Scotland apparently wear these non-ghillie laced brogues even in quite formal circumstances. I have previously posted a photo of the installation ceremony of the Finlaggen Pursuivant, showing several grand worthies wearing non-ghillie laced brogues.

To help lighted the thread, some truths.

This photo, with the High Chief of Clan Donald at the centre, shows the current shoe fashion for day wear in Scotland. Although many do not prefer them, so-called Ghillie Brogues are accepted and frequently worn as evening wear (never during the day). One never sees what have been called "Mary Janes" and rarely sees buckled shoes in Scotland today -- and never buckled shoes during the day.

Ghillie brogues (wherever and however they originated) are worn in two fashions: with short laces tied as one would normally tie a pair of shoes, or with a triple-twist at the ankle and taken once around the leg to tie, at the front, part way up the calf. The pressure is taken at the ankle, does not cut off circulation and makes them quite comfortable. The ties are never wrapped repeatedly around the ankle and tied.

Neither day wear nor evening wear shoes are "uniform" -- just the fashion of today. Elsewhere in this thread two illustrations were posted, probably taken from an older book. The first shows some sort of quasi-military garb that would certainly be thought of as "costumey" in Scotland today. The second, an illustration of two chaps in evening dress, is obviously also from the past, but is close to accepted "fashion" today.

Somebody else noted the presence of plaids in the Finlaggen photo. This folded blanket style is in fashion today, but is almost exclusively worn by chiefs, chieftains and other "gentlemen" in a day setting. It is sometimes even seen with trews and jacket during the day.

[Tommy Hunt]

I've seen two types of Ghillie Brogues. The ones we see above and the ones which look like slippers with many more shoe-lace eyelets in them. What's the difference?

[Macman]

I've seen two types of Ghillie Brogues. The ones we see above and the ones which look like slippers with many more shoe-lace eyelets in them. What's the difference?

Tommy, I think the ones you're describing are for dancing.

[JRB]

...Somebody else noted the presence of plaids in the Finlaggen photo. This folded blanket style is in fashion today, but is almost exclusively worn by chiefs, chieftains and other "gentlemen" in a day setting...

That would explain why we call it a laird's plaid. I like the way it looks but it seems like it might be difficult to keep it on the shoulder.

[ThistleDown]

That would explain why we call it a laird's plaid. I like the way it looks but it seems like it might be difficult to keep it on the shoulder.

It's folded so that the bulk of the width is on the shoulder. Still, it is not for actively moving about in and is really just a fashion with limited historical basis.