Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[Finn]

Boot guy here.

[McMurdo]

Not normally, just plain leather sporran, and a plain leather belt, got to say I have quite a few friends who have at least one kilt, almost all only have one belt and one sporran and it fits all uses.
I only have one kilt belt one pewter buckle, ok I have a SK cargo sporran and a leather one but neither are dress (I would post a pic but haven't worked out how yet). I would agree that it is possibly driven by the hire industry, but regardless, it dosent look out of place, and it is something that is being worn in such circumstances.
Not trying to make a judgement as to right or wrong, just stating what is.

Point taken, the Pewter buckle you are talking about is it one like this:

If so this is what I meant as a dress buckle, for casual wear I tend to wear something less formal, my casual belts look like this:

[Fiddler Doyle]

I think this is the type of response I was talking about in regard to unmeasured responses to this poll. To say you don't like them and give reasons is one thing, to insult the wearing of them by calling them "costume like" steps over a line, I believe. The reason I say this is because they are so traditional, they are a part of MODERN Scottish attire, and they are worn at many functions. There is nothing "costume like" about them.

Children's shoes? Where does that come from?

First - my opinion expressed was not intended as an insult to the MANY wearers of ghillie brogues - so please accept my apologies. I do not like them as I question their authenticity in a historical context - it is, again my observation, most common to see persons kilted wearing the footwear of the period and the occasion. Yes there are occasions when Scots wore ghillie brogues - possibly because it was what they could afford and not what they would choose. Driving that to the modern context and saying that it is authentic Scot wear, seems more of marketing than history. Yes, Ghillie Brogues are part of "modern attire" but I think it is a stretch to say they are part of tradition. In fact, I can't say I have ever seen historical prints with Scots wearing wingtips, and my birkenstocks are probably closer to the original ghillie brogues than the expensive pair of "scottish" wingtip ghillie brogues in my closet.

I wear a kilt often - and am occasionally chided about my "costume" in this context my kilt. I am prepared to defend kilt wearing, less so the wearing of ghillie brogues.

Now, someone elses's opinion -

"A Bit of Background on Ghillie Brogues.

Originally, gillie brogues were simply a flat piece of leather with holes poked along the edges then laced at the top of the foot. Obviously not footwear for royalty! In fact, the word ghillie in Gaelic can be paraphrased as "young boy." (Brogue is translated "shoe.") In other words, if someone tells you that they are wearing "ghillies" on their feet, you are entitled to laugh! Nonetheless, it's common for pipers to refer to these special shoes as "ghillies" as a shortened term."

Source: http://www.bagpipejourney.com/articl..._brogues.shtml

In conclusion, apologies if I have offended anyone, and Scotus, thanks for reading my post and giving me the opportunity to think through my position a little more thoroughly.

[bowser]

Point taken, the Pewter buckle you are talking about is it one like this:

If so this is what I meant as a dress buckle, for casual wear I tend to wear something less formal, my casual belts look like this:

I havent worked out how to upload photos, but yes it is very similar, but its a celtic knot work design, and the belt is plain leather.
But that said Its very similar to the sort of buckle I would wear with jeans so nothing special.
as and when I work out how to load pictures I will post some

[McMurdo]

bowser have you seen this thread on how to post photos?

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...s_faq_pictures

[auld argonian]

I've voted that I don't like them. This whole costume/traditional discussion seems a bit pointless. If they were made in a traditional way they would just be a foot shaped leather bag with rawhide laces and not these evolved wingtip-brogue things with soles and heels. I guess that my personal perspective is that I prefer to look like a kilt wearing guy who's living right now and not trying to look like it's the Nineteenth Century and I'm hangin' with Queen Victoria.

Best

AA

[Riverkilt]

I guess I like them...would probably own a pair if the manufacturers of them would ever make them in a size WIDE enough to fit a MAN'S foot....particular those with Scottish blood.

Just because shoes are made in the Far East now doesn't mean they only need to be sized for Far Eastern feet.

Why market a product that isn't sized for the folks you wanna sell them to?? Still baffles me...

One size fits all has NEVER applied to feet.

Okay, rant over.

Ron

[DWFII]

I've voted that I don't like them. This whole costume/traditional discussion seems a bit pointless. If they were made in a traditional way they would just be a foot shaped leather bag with rawhide laces and not these evolved wingtip-brogue things with soles and heels. I guess that my personal perspective is that I prefer to look like a kilt wearing guy who's living right now and not trying to look like it's the Nineteenth Century and I'm hangin' with Queen Victoria.

Best

AA

Sorry, I don't believe that's true and I don't think there's any evidence to support it. Except in isolated areas and rural settings, the kind of shoes ("foot shaped leather bags") you're talking about, pre-date kilts and would have, in all likelihood, have disappeared years before the first known kilt was worn (mid-17th century).

If you're sticking with Queen Victoria (no problem with that), the shoes in vogue might have been a plain lace up ankle boot (there are numerous Victorian photos of ankle boots worn with full length hose and kilts) or perhaps a buckle shoe of some sort. Almost all the styles we have become accustomed to in top shelf men's footwear have their origins if not their hey-day in this era.

BTW, for those who may be interested, in modern parlance "brogue" refers to a specific type of lace-up shoe that is ornamented with gimping and "broguing." According to R.A. Salaman "Dictionary of LeatherWorking tools c.1700-1950"--considered the definitive source for the leatherworking and shoemaking lexicon...and where many old Scots shoemaking words such as "lingle," "fit-fang, "elshin," "deevil"" and "yerkin" are still referenced--"brogue" is as I have identified it. And yes, "brogue" is also recognized as an old Irish Gaelic word meaning shoe but, at least in the Trade most intimately associated with shoes, that definition has been superseded by more contemporary usage. That's the way language...and, more importantly, communication...evolves.

I don't know where the word "ghillie" comes from in this context. I may have first run across it on this forum and I have surely been careless in my usage of the term.

[Bugbear]

Well, I like wearing the ankle high, lace up boots with a kilt. I have a black pair, so I guess that is all right.

It seems like brogue shoes are almost always wingtip style. Is this ever done on any non-wingtip style shoes?

[DWFII]

Well, I like wearing the ankle high, lace up boots with a kilt. I have a black pair, so I guess that is all right.

It seems like brogue shoes are almost always wingtip style. Is this ever done on any non-wingtip style shoes?

I guess it kind of depends on what you think of as a "wing-tip." If you mean the re-curved toe cap that swings back past the ball joint, then the answer is "yes."

But many brogues are done with just a straight across toe cap. And some oxford variations (with no toe cap at all) have broguing on them...it kind of depends upon the maker. You get a lot of variation and fanciful work from the high end bespoke makers that you might not see in a "off-the-shelf" shoe.

Check out this link for some very nice, high, high end men's bespoke shoes, many of which are not strictly brogues but which have broguing on them:

http://www.gazianogirling.com/samplebg/index.html

There are several pages of thumbnails here...all of which re-size upwards so be aware of the arrows that take you to the next set of images.