Prince Charlie Coatee

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 09, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Panache

The Prince Charlie is certainly a more modern look than say the regimental doublet or montrose doublet. It is sleeker and simpler than all the other styles of formal jacket / doublet.

Couldn't agree less, Jamie. The PC is a cut down tail coat which owes it post-war popularity to its cheaper price due to its lower cost to manufacture. Instead of "simpler" I'd say it was "skimpier", and that skimpiness shows. It especially shows with regard to the fit of the waistcoat, something you have commented on quite recently.

Originally Posted by Panache

To me it is a bridge between the traditional highland formal look and a standard dinner jacket / tuxedo.

That's a bridge too far to cross. That accolade belongs to the Argyll jacket, which used to be called the Dress Kilt Jacket. MacKinnon of Dunakin (as quoted initially by Sandy) has this to say on the subject:

"The Dress Kilt Jacket corresponds to a Lowlander's dinner jacket. It can be worn with bow tie or jabot, and is sometimes worn without cuffs, pocket flaps, and epaulettes."

Try removing those bits from a coatee and you end up with what it really is-- a tail coat with the tails whacked off.

Originally Posted by Panache

I will in the fairly near future need to replace my Prince Charlie style coatee and have been considering a navy blue one as an option (which I think would look superb with the XMTS tartan).

My only fear is that this would somehow be considered less formal than a black one.

As far as Highland attire is concerned, the Prince Charlie coatee is the red-haired stepchild of formal dress. Even if it is Navy Blue.

Jamie, whilst I think doublets can, and sometimes do, look good in colours other than black, I'm afraid we part company when it comes to the Prince Charlie coatee.

Adding colour to a coatee always reminds me of that line from Gilbert & Sullivan-- "mutton dressed as lamb", and all that it implies about "taste".

Chin-chin, off for a G&IT!
Scott

**Jock Scot** · 27th February 09, 01:18 PM

I am a Sheriffmuir man myself in very dark green velvet with matching waistcoat.At a pinch I could wear a black bow tie, but mainly a lace jabot and cuffs. Somehow though, it has shrunk more than a wee tad and has been hi jacked by one of my sons! Ho hum.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 09, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I am a Sheriffmuir man myself in very dark green velvet with matching waistcoat.At a pinch I could wear a black bow tie, but mainly a lace jabot and cuffs. Somehow though, it has shrunk more than a wee tad and has been hi jacked by one of my sons! Ho hum.

My exact problem, although mine is in black barathea with ribbed silk facings and waistcoat. I think this "shrinkage" of the Sheriffmuirs should be reported to the Board of Trade.

Like yourself I'm a ruffles and lace man, and reserve the bow tie for outtings with my dress kilt jacket (A.K.A. "an Argyll").

**Bugbear** · 27th February 09, 01:48 PM

Well, as I see it,

, the Sheriffmuir (with jabot and cuffs) is a better option than a Prince Charlie coatee.

I'm sure Cynthia will agree.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 27th February 09, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Well, as I see it,

, the Sheriffmuir (with jabot and cuffs) is a better option than a Prince Charlie coatee.

I'm sure Cynthia will agree.

Damn! but you're smart... we never seem to quarrel over things like this.

**English Bloke** · 27th February 09, 02:40 PM

Interesting thoughts on the Navy coloured PC. Saw one with waistcoat on sale from the Golden Boys on ebay recently and as it was so cheap in comparison to the Black one form the same source, I considered it for a moment ... but then I thought "Naaa! everyone will know I only paid 50 quid for it" and I am inclined to think that as with the Kilt, you probably get what you pay for...

Plus, I think they look smashing on everyone else but they are not for me. Looks too much like a mess dress jacket with bells on for my taste... (for which obviously there is no accounting for).

I too prefer the Argyll (or in my case Crail) style although again, you get what you pay for.

EDIT:Don't take any notice of me. Here speaks a man who wears a Levi jacket with kilt most of the time. I don't get invited to many best bib and tucker parties these days.

**JSFMACLJR** · 27th February 09, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Well, as I see it,

, the Sheriffmuir (with jabot and cuffs) is a better option than a Prince Charlie coatee.

I'm sure Cynthia will agree.

It's a much better choice, Ted.

Cheers,
Sandford

**JSFMACLJR** · 27th February 09, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Will do. And one other question. May one wear a doublet and jabot for the black tie attire?

Thanks.

Yes you can Ted. I frequently do. In Scotland, a jabot is more popular in the Western Highlands and Isles.

Sandford

**Bugbear** · 27th February 09, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

It's a much better choice, Ted.

Cheers,
Sandford

That is good to know, and thank you.

With tartan or diced hose of course. That just leaves the shoes to consider...

**McMurdo** · 27th February 09, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

That is good to know, and thank you.

With tartan or diced hose of course. That just leaves the shoes to consider...

Ted
As for footwear, buckle brogues would be proper. Mine are Kilties from Nichol Brothers, though no longer in business they can still be found from time to time on ebay, there are of course other options as well.