1860's re-enactment in kilt.

[macwilkin]

Just an observation, but it should be pointed out that the majority of these gentlemen are members of the New York Caledonian Club, an immigrant organization in a large urban area.

Why is that important to note? We in the 21st century tend to forget that in mid-19th century America, most people didn't wear their ethnicity on their sleeves, so to speak, unless they lived in an area settled by immigrants and participated in immigrant social circles, such as the aforementioned Caledonian Club, the German Turnvereins or the Irish Ancient Order of Hibernians, not to mention ethnic parishes and congregations.

In my 10 years of reenacting, I saw more Irish impressions (generally with very bad brogues and uniforms covered in harps and shamrocks), yet the average Irish immigrant would have most likely avoided sticking out like a sore thumb, given the deep-seated bigotry of some White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Americans against "Hans and Paddy", unless he was among his own in an ethnic community or regiment, such as the 69th NY or the 116th PA.

In the 1850s, the American or "Know-Nothing" Party had a brief rise in popularity, campaigning on the Nativist ticket and opposing immigration, especially due to the large numbers of Roman Catholic Irish arriving in the US. Some Know-Nothing elements even opposed the 79th and its "foreign" uniform.

An immigrant away from an expat settlement such as Dogtown in St. Louis could find himself in a peck of trouble if he proclaimed too loudly if he was from the "ould sod".

Just something for folks to think about before putting together an immigrant impression. I've read one article that advised those wishing to do an Irish soldier in the ranks would do well to carry a rosary instead of wearing a harp badge! Perhaps all the Scottish immigrant would need (apart from someone in an ethnic unit like the 79th) is a copy of Burns in their haversack, as one of my relatives carried.

The photos, however, are fanastic, and I'd like to thank Rachel for posting them! Guid on ya!

Regards,

Todd

[79thReproductions]

Yes sir, all NY Cal. Club. I meant to say they were members but instead I said all the images were form their site.

In the mid to late 1850s, the scottish community in New York was very large. Yes, the New York Caledonian Club was an immigrant organization, but for the most part, the members were well off middle class. A great example of their wealth is the 79th. Their uniforms were very expensive and bought privatly by members. Their jacket cost $7.75 when a Pvt in the U.S. Army made $13 a month.

The Col of the 79th that first lead them into the field (James Cameron) was the brother of the secretary of war. (Simon Cameron) Thats just one political connection the Scottish community had in politics.

I don't think the scots in NY were ashamed or hid their ethnic heritage as much as we are lead to believe.

They held public Highland games as early as the late 50s with advirtisments in Harpers Weekly. They raised militias that even when warned about ethnic dress (Kilts) went through with wearing them and were praised for it in antebellum patriotic parades. Lincoln himself enjoyed bagpipes.

Most of these images are from the NY Cal Club of the NY Cal Club





79th New York marching in the 4th of July parade in New York City- 1860


I dont know when this parade was but it sure is the NYC Club!








More pipers!




I dont know much about the Irish. I think Todd has great insight into their culture during that time!

[jeremy j starche]

Yes sir, Got the PM! If you dont mind, discussing things here would help others out that might want to do this.

Don't mind the discussion being public at all.

What exactly do you have in mind? What area of the country is your impression? Social class, age, profession ect. I think developing a structure to base your material impression on is a great start. (And costs nothing ;) )

I know what I'd love to pull off, but I'm not sure if the existed yet. I'd love to play a Scottish merchant who is trying to sell some new fangled device, either to the population or the army itself and observing enough to write letters back home.

I know that a few [dozen] years later, there were a number of Scottish-made steam powered tractors hitting the US shores. I'm still researching for something like that in the 1860's. So far all I've found is wool and whiskey exports for that time frame.

The interesting thing about victorian clothing and especially ethnic Scottish atire during that era is that they were not perfect or very flattering. The jackets often had a loose fit, hats were worn with little care as to how they wore on the head (From the examples of 1860s images of Scots in New York), how their belts were worn, the size of their sporran ect.

I'm discovering that. I've got my eye out for a tweed jacket for one of the conversions, figuring it wouldn't have been as well or as closely tailored as modern jackets. Best I could tell it followed the Victorian style shirts with much wider sleeves.

[Images snipped]

Heres the basics, any input would be great!

• simple doublet,
  --- Working on that one.
  
• Tam o shanter (Correct? I dont remember if thats the name of the hat),
  
• box pleat kilt in a tartan available during the 1860s(Mr Newsome!)
  --- I have a box pleated kilt but it is in a very light saxony wool and cut a little short for today's standards (a couple inches above the knee). It doesn't seem to have the right feel for this application.
  
• simple diced hose
  --- cringe I know those are authentic .. but ... um ...if I must I must. I have to admit I've never liked the look of them.
  
• low rise "revolutionary war" shoes with simple buckles
  --- I've got my eye out for something along those lines too. I found a pair of pair of shoes I can best describe as "men's mary janes" with the buckle on the side and a /slight/ heel. Been meaning to get pics and post asking if folks thought they'd pass.
  
• Wearing modern things like belts, simple dirks, should not be an issue.
  --- It was my understanding that a civilian would not have worn a dirk at this point in history, but I'd be happy to be corrected. It would have been as out-of-place as a ceremonial sword. (I've got a beautiful dirk that I'd love to wear. I'd love to wear my Claymore too, but I won't push it...)
  
• Horse hair sporran with real horse hair
  --- On my list, but prolly will be one of the last items I think.

On a budget, this can come together fairly easy. These things are available at most highland supply stores. Key items like the jacket can be modified by a jacket thats similar. Emulate some of the details that Victorian doublets have like the cuffs, the funky sporran cut out, button placement ect.

Over all, the best thing you can do is study how they wore their clothing and copy it. It makes a world of difference!

Thank you for the pictures, I'll be studying those in depth with the Lady at my side. She tends to have a better eye for how things fit me than I have for myself.

If it isn't an imposition, any idea on how they dressed a touch more casually? I know my forefathers were made of a far sterner stuff than I am, but I can't imagine them doing anything when the temps broke 90-100F. I know a few of the soldiers battled with heat-stroke and I almost dropped from it.

Once again, thank you for your guidance and advice. This will help me more focus in on my research and planning.

[jeremy j starche]

Todd, I am aware of the anti-Irish feelings that rolled through this country and no doubt an Irish immigrant would have quickly learned to hide his status and blend in. In my reading, I haven't found any reference to the Scots being subject to the same treatment. Perhaps because they were far less likely to be papists?

Seems that a good number of those with Scots heritage were shipped over as indenured servants, often for wearing the tartan or other violation of the Clearing Acts. From my understanding of history, these were the people who held onto their traditions, often stronger than people back in the old country.

[79thReproductions]

Is your heart set on a tweed jacket? A dark solid jacket would be best, but you could get by with what you want.

Hose..... Go diced! Please for the love of the Victorian fashion gods! :]

I have never seen an casual Victorian kilted outfit. Im sure the existed though. These people were dressing for the camera. Imagine it would be the jacket, undershirt, kilt, sporran, hose shoes ect. None of th belts and plaids.

I have no evidence to support this, its just a guess I have having worn very traditional highland clothing and then wanting to take some things off to be "casual" around the camp fire ect.

For the shoes, I think of a loafer type shoe.

[jeremy j starche]

No, I'd not say my heart is set on a tweed jacket. I only choose to look for that because the various conversion threads indicate that tweed is more forgiving of my skill-level of sewing than other fabrics.

As for the diced hose .. yea .. yea .. I know ... I know .. I'll do it. But they'll only come out of the drawer for re-enactments.

Likewise, when I can afford the horse-hair sporran... Just need to make sure that it doesn't hang lower than my kilt does.

Its my understanding that no-one, at least not stateside, was outdoors in just a shirt but always had a vest, jacket or both.

Then we have ties, cravats and gloves. The gloves, at least, I think I can skip as a piper. I've heard of people piping in gloves, but until the Mythbusters take it on, it didn't happen. ;]

[79thReproductions]

Why don't you want to sporran to go bellow your kilt. Thats basically what Victorian sporrans did! ith:

The vest jacket thing is a myth. Just like tight lacing corsets (Rarely happened)

[jeremy j starche]

Why don't you want to sporran to go bellow your kilt. Thats basically what Victorian sporrans did! ith:

The vest jacket thing is a myth. Just like tight lacing corsets (Rarely happened)

Nothing hangs below the kilt-line.

Not to get too far off topic, but I have Tourette's Syndrome which has given me a very high startle reflex. While highly entertaining for my Lady, it can be "distracting." I've worn low-hanging tassels and jump every time the wind knocked 'em against my knees. Walking was ... "interesting" and as for my piping ....

You are saying that it was more common to be in public in just a shirt than we would be led to believe? I'm all for that idea...

[macwilkin]

Todd, I am aware of the anti-Irish feelings that rolled through this country and no doubt an Irish immigrant would have quickly learned to hide his status and blend in. In my reading, I haven't found any reference to the Scots being subject to the same treatment. Perhaps because they were far less likely to be papists?

A very good point, Jeremy -- Fernec Szasz raises it as well in Scots in the North American West that the Scots, being Protestant and easily assimilated compared to the "Green" Irish were not as often victims of nativism.

I don't think the scots in NY were ashamed or hid their ethnic heritage as much as we are lead to believe.

Rachel, I never said that immigrants were necessarily ashamed of their heritage (although some immigrants did assimilate to American society quicker than others) -- my point was that in a large urban area such as NYC or Chicago, as you say, the Scots or any other immigrant group would most likely not hide their heritage -- safety in numbers. But in other areas of the country where "native" Americans were in the majority, caution would be the better part of valour. There is an excellent book about Irish & German immigrants in the 1850s in the Mississippi River Valley that documents many clashes between "Hans & Paddy" and their native neighbors.

By the 1870's, nativism against Northern & Eastern European immigrants was subsiding, as more immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe began to come in as unskilled labor for the rising industrial sector.

Based on some of the fashions in those photos (which are excellent, btw!), I would say they are post-war. The two fellows in bowlers would tend to suggest they were taken in the 1870s-80s, but don't quote me on that.

Great discussion!

Todd

[79thReproductions]

I wanted to say 1890s for the large parade with the larger man on horse back because of their coats, but I wont quote you if you dont quote me! =]