Difference between a "dancing" kilt and any other, and liners?

[Barb T]

A "dancer's (not dancing!) kilt" is simply a traditional kilt made for a dancer.

-The construction is exactly the same, and the kilt opens on the same side as any trad kilt would.

-It's hard to leap around the swords with a big heavy kilt, so the tartan weight is typically less than for a man's trad kilt. In my opinion, the best kilts for dancers are made in 11-12 oz tartan (such as Dalgliesh weaves). I don't like 10 oz tartan for a kilt for a dancer - it's too flippy and wrinkles too easily, although some mills sell 10 oz tartan specifically for dancing (personally, I think it's too light). But 8 oz would be _too_ light in anyone's book.

-How much tartan is in a kilt for a dancer depends on the size of the dancer. Because most girls are smaller than most men, the kilt typically has less tartan. But even for a small girl, there will be at least 5 yards, and maybe 6, depending on the size of the sett (less than 5 yards doesn't give enough pleats and doesn't have the needed swing). For a larger dancer, I've used 7 yards or more. Because light weight tartan typically has smaller setts than heavier weight tartan, you can get away with a little less tartan and still have a nice number of pleats.

-Dancers typically wear dress (or white-based) tartans, because they show up better on stage. Dancers typically compete outdoors, and a dark kilt doesn't stand out on stage with a background of woods and fields. Dalgliesh specializes in weaving dress tartans for Highland dance - they carry over 80 dress tartans in 11-12 oz range.

-Kilts for dancers are not artificially weighted in any way, but they virtually all have hems that give them a bit of weight at the bottom. The hem is necessary because lightweight tartan is woven without a kilting selvedge.

-Because a dancer does not wear a kilt pin, the second apron edge buckle is necessary to control the fringe edge of the kilt.

-The kilt has a lining (not a liner) across the top of the inside of the kilt to cover the canvas interfacing. Steve explained it nicely.

-If you watch a Highland dance competition, the only concession to modesty is that the dancers are required to wear dark colored dance underwear so that the viewer doesn't get a flash of white panties when the kilt swings....

[Pleater]

--Kilts for dancers are not artificially weighted in any way, but they virtually all have hems that give them a bit of weight at the bottom. The hem is necessary because lightweight tartan is woven without a kilting selvage.
...

Of course - a hem - Thanks Barb - I could see that the lower edge of the kilt was swinging slightly more than looked right, but as the fabric was a tartan I was thinking that it would be a selvage.

Without a kilting selvage the kilt would be hemmed, and perhaps for some of the younger ones the hem was larger than absolutely necessary, to allow for growth, so it would add just that little extra weight.

I MIGHT just have been studying kilts a bit too much y'know - getting into the dynamics of swinging pleats and the physics of folds...

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[wildrover]

Ok...

I have the distinct impression that everyone associates "dancer" with a curvaceous and daintily feminine creature about their own age, generally found in a leotard and leg warmers, the sort of girl I'd invite to dinner, drinks, and them, on me for an evening or two, and who'd take well to wearing a lightweight flippy fabric that shows off the aforementioned panties when she twirls .

That said, I am neither dainty nor feminine, don't look good in white unless it's a t-shirt, prefer freedom to constriction and leave modesty to the other guy, and it will be a cold day in hell before I wear a leotard .

Yep, I'm a guy .

I'm also a guy who's honestly considering learning to dance the fling and sword dance again (did it when I was a kid...I stopped as soon as I realized that "dance" generally equated to "being a girl", which was at a pretty young age...no exposure to history of Highland dance, nor men who danced the Fling etc. as men, and I later learned Swing and a good bit of breaking instead). The 1st Battalion Scots Guards made an impression, I guess.

So...if you were gonna make an 8yd/16oz kilt for a guy who'd be dancing as well as pelting through the underbrush and wearing it in the occasional hailstorm on the side of a mountain (yep)...would you change anything specific to dancing in the kilt, and why? The SOHDA dress code is complete as to presentation but not as concerns construction nor intent. Weight, I'm not concerned with...tho heat might be a different story...?

Sincere thanks,
Sean

[Barb T]

If you go to any Highland Games, you'll see that 95% of Highland dancers (maybe more) are girls (and I mean girls, not women). 6-16 sort of age range. So that's why I assumed female.

Male dancers wear both dress and dark tartans if they compete as dancers, but most wear 11-13 oz tartan for exactly the same reason - too heavy and hot to leap around in a 16 oz kilt (and the weight of the back of the kilt flying can throw off a spin).

[wildrover]

If you go to any Highland Games, you'll see that 95% of Highland dancers (maybe more) are girls (and I mean girls, not women). 6-16 sort of age range. So that's why I assumed female.

Aha ...that explains what I've seen. I just figured the adults and the guys were later in the day, and never stuck around for more than a couple minutes since I've mostly just seen little kids doing it, outside of YouTube. Bummer then, that the guys with the Scots Guards are such an exception.

Male dancers wear both dress and dark tartans if they compete as dancers, but most wear 11-13 oz tartan for exactly the same reason - too heavy and hot to leap around in a 16 oz kilt (and the weight of the back of the kilt flying can throw off a spin).

Got it...so if I get a lighter weight kilt for summer, it'll suffice if I decide to start Highland dancing again .

Tho I'll admit, wearing a kilt in an otherwise p@ntsed culture is one thing, but it'll take a lot of heavy thinking as to whether or not I'd be comfortable in that environment ...and I imagine an adult male could be a bit of a quandary for an instructor who's used to working with little girls, if my experience in the dance department in college is any indicator...and those were college girls. If you're a guy in America, where the heck do you go, to learn this stuff?

Anyhow, thanks for the advice Barb!

-Sean

[St. Amish]

A "dancer's (not dancing!) kilt" is simply a traditional kilt made for a dancer.

-The construction is exactly the same, and the kilt opens on the same side as any trad kilt would.

-It's hard to leap around the swords with a big heavy kilt, so the tartan weight is typically less than for a man's trad kilt. In my opinion, the best kilts for dancers are made in 11-12 oz tartan (such as Dalgliesh weaves). I don't like 10 oz tartan for a kilt for a dancer - it's too flippy and wrinkles too easily, although some mills sell 10 oz tartan specifically for dancing (personally, I think it's too light). But 8 oz would be _too_ light in anyone's book.

-How much tartan is in a kilt for a dancer depends on the size of the dancer. Because most girls are smaller than most men, the kilt typically has less tartan. But even for a small girl, there will be at least 5 yards, and maybe 6, depending on the size of the sett (less than 5 yards doesn't give enough pleats and doesn't have the needed swing). For a larger dancer, I've used 7 yards or more. Because light weight tartan typically has smaller setts than heavier weight tartan, you can get away with a little less tartan and still have a nice number of pleats.

-Dancers typically wear dress (or white-based) tartans, because they show up better on stage. Dancers typically compete outdoors, and a dark kilt doesn't stand out on stage with a background of woods and fields. Dalgliesh specializes in weaving dress tartans for Highland dance - they carry over 80 dress tartans in 11-12 oz range.

-Kilts for dancers are not artificially weighted in any way, but they virtually all have hems that give them a bit of weight at the bottom. The hem is necessary because lightweight tartan is woven without a kilting selvedge.

-Because a dancer does not wear a kilt pin, the second apron edge buckle is necessary to control the fringe edge of the kilt.

-The kilt has a lining (not a liner) across the top of the inside of the kilt to cover the canvas interfacing. Steve explained it nicely.

-If you watch a Highland dance competition, the only concession to modesty is that the dancers are required to wear dark colored dance underwear so that the viewer doesn't get a flash of white panties when the kilt swings....

What does a dancer's kilt cost to make? My fiance has an aversion to "billie" kilts because of the length, and has been snooping around the dancer's area at Games to see if she can find one her size in a tartan that she will wear. Now I'm wondering if I can afford to have one made for her.

[lethearen]

What does a dancer's kilt cost to make? My fiance has an aversion to "billie" kilts because of the length, and has been snooping around the dancer's area at Games to see if she can find one her size in a tartan that she will wear. Now I'm wondering if I can afford to have one made for her.

If I understand correctly, Barb was pretty much saying that a dancer's kilt is just a kilt. Tends to be lighter weight fabric, but otherwise just a kilt.

Scotweb (link in upper right of the forum) has women's mini-kilts for about 100$. You can specify how long to make it, so she could have it come to her knees if she wanted. As long as she doesn't mind its not being an 8-yarder something like that would could work, perhaps?

[St. Amish]

If I understand correctly, Barb was pretty much saying that a dancer's kilt is just a kilt. Tends to be lighter weight fabric, but otherwise just a kilt.

Right, I get that. I just have never purchased light weight material, so I assumed there would be some cost differential.

[St. Amish]

If I understand correctly, Barb was pretty much saying that a dancer's kilt is just a kilt. Tends to be lighter weight fabric, but otherwise just a kilt.

And now that I think about it more, it would take quite a bit less material to make an "8 yd" on her petite frame than the 9 yards of material it took for mine.

[McClef]

Seeing my picture being cited in evidence....

As I recall, the kilt the guy was wearing did seem to be made in light weight and thus could fly up during some of his moves but only, pardon the pun, briefly and it flew down just as quickly. He was also on a platform and thus higher up than the spectators. The camera is quicker than the human eye and can freeze a moment in a way that might not register when being observed. There is also a delay between pressing the shutter and the image being captured so I did not know I had captured it until I saw the result. Just as in Dumfries I captured someone mooning when they posing quite normally when I was actually composing the photo.

Martin's citing of regimental dancing with the much heavier military kilts may well indeed have a different result in regards of "lifting capabilities".

I have been to several ceilidhs in Edinburgh with a lot of swinging movements going on and most kilts being of the tank variety and n'er a glimpse of the mystery being revealed.