Recent Irish kilt question

[O'Callaghan]

Just one plea. Will those posters who repeatedly say there's "no history of" something they know goes back to the 19th century please stop saying it? Hello, it's the 21st century now, you know. I can't think of any good reason to make such a statement, but several bad ones.

[macwilkin]

Just one plea. Will those posters who repeatedly say there's "no history of" something they know goes back to the 19th century please stop saying it? Hello, it's the 21st century now, you know. I can't think of any good reason to make such a statement, but several bad ones.

I think most folks who are "in the know" about the Irish and kilts would agree with the statement that it goes back to the 19th century -- in fact, it's pretty much a given that the Irish adoption of Highland attire began at the end of the 19th and early 20th century -- it's the claim that the Irish wore kilts before that time that "they" have problems with.

T. (The pedantic pedagogue)

[JRB]

B. Wearing the kilt is a political act.

Therein lies the problem and why several topics/threads become hostile. To some people the wearing of a kilt is a political act. To others the kilt is a comfortable alternative to pants and/or a way to connect to ones heritage. Those that wear the kilt because they simply enjoy wearing it as a comfortable garment are subject to the political opinions of those that consider the wearing of the kilt to be a political act. That can't be changed but I don't feel it needs to get ugly on a forum that's supposed to be for everyone.

[Arlen]

While I can appreciate where you are coming from, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree-- in my opinion all "hot button" topics are going to do is breed and foster a spirit of discontent within some circles-- or cliques-- on the forum.

Those that wish to continue a "hot button topic" discussion can do so via PM-- and I for one can tell you that I have done just that. The problem is that "hot topic" discussions ultimately become personal; something that only rarely happens on the open forum.

As far as being over moderated goes... I suppose it all comes down to whose posting gets pulled. Me personally? I think they are pretty laissez faire, vis-a-vis the occasional laissez aller on the part of the members. In other words, they only do their job when we fail to do ours.

I absolutely could not have said it better.

If you want to talk politics with someone no one is banning you from doing it over PM. But we all check the 'I accept the rules' box when we sign up for an account here at xmts.

[Heming]

Despite holding a BA in international thingummies, focussing on intercultural communication and understanding, I have always found some cultures a bit too enthusiastic about freedom of speech. I personally find that the moderators could probably have closed some threads earlier, and banned some topics that are allowed. But I respect the rules as they are, and try to conform to the expected behavior of the forum. I admire the work the mods do - I could never do it myself.

This is the only web forum I am a member of, so I can't compare with other sites, but in my humble opinion XMTS is very balanced and has a mod squad that should be paid in whiskey (or non-alcoholic beverage of choice).

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I think most folks who are "in the know" about the Irish and kilts would agree with the statement that it goes back to the 19th century -- in fact, it's pretty much a given that the Irish adoption of Highland attire began at the end of the 19th and early 20th century -- it's the claim that the Irish wore kilts before that time that "they" have problems with.

T. (The pedantic pedagogue)

I'm in agreement with Todd, all the way, with this one. I would add, however, that in the century or so that he is referring to, kilt wearing in Ireland was viewed by the Irish as an eccentricity (most likely the creation of the Anglo-Irish gentry) and rarely, if ever, actually worn by your average Irishman who regarded (and still regards) the kilt as "Scottish".

Yes, I know that the kilt is worn by pipe bands in the Irish defense forces. But in accepting this fact one has to remember that virtually all of the "traditions" of the Irish military-- and this includes the kilt-- were adapted from the British after independence.

No one, on this forum or elsewhere, has ever produced a shred of evidence to show that, aside from a few eccentrics, some dancers, and the post-1921 Irish army pipe bands, there is any real historical evidence to suggest the kilt was an item of everyday wear in Ireland at any time.

If someone wants to wear a kilt in an "Irish" tartan, that's fine by me. Just don't dress it up in some kind of specious pseudo-history and try to pass it off as the garb of ancient Hibernia.

[macwilkin]

I'm in agreement with Todd, all the way, with this one. I would add, however, that in the century or so that he is referring to, kilt wearing in Ireland was viewed by the Irish as an eccentricity most likely the creation of the Anglo-Irish gentry, and rarely, if ever, actually worn by your average Irishman who regarded (and still regards) the kilt as "Scottish".

Yes, I know that the kilt is worn by pipe bands in the Irish defense forces. But in accepting this fact one has to remember that virtually all of the "traditions" of the Irish military-- and this includes the kilt-- were adapted from the British after independence.

No one, on this forum or elsewhere, has ever produced a shred of evidence to show that, aside from a few eccentrics, some dancers, and the post-1921 Irish army pipe bands, there is any real historical evidence to suggest the kilt was an item of everyday wear in Ireland at any time.

If someone wants to wear a kilt in an "Irish" tartan, that's fine by me. Just don't dress it up in some kind of specious pseudo-history and try to pass it off as the garb of ancient Hibernia.

Spot on, Rathdown. If this post doesn't answer the question, then I'm the King of Bulgaria!

T.

[JRB]

...it's pretty much a given that the Irish adoption of Highland attire began at the end of the 19th and early 20th century...T. (The pedantic pedagogue)

The key words in the above quote are "Irish adoption of Highland attire". That is to say, any historical information of the Irish wearing kilts must be understood to be the Irish wearing the traditional dress of another culture (i.e. the Scottish Highlanders) as a way to celebrate or embrace their common ancestors, the Celts. I have absolutely no problem with that. But the bottom line is the kilt is a Scottish Highlands garment.

[McClef]

Those items of discussion that are banned are banned for a good reason and it's not for reasons of desire to censor but because more heat than light is generated by them.

I have seen what can happen on unmoderated forums and the effects can be far from pleasant. It sucks in more and more people and everybody always seems to want to have the last word.

As Panache says, we all have our own opinions etc but sometimes we have to leave them at the door.

The rules are currently undergoing revision and will hopefully make things clearer as to the whys and wherefores etc.

[Stratherrick]

In a nutshell, to me the kilt came from the common Scoto-Irish leine.

Oh, and if you haven't picked it up after a year, the prime reason for wearing my kilt is political.

For the sake of harmony, I have vowed not to discuss the reasons why on this board.

Slainte

Bruce