Heraldry-Ordinary question

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

The motto scroll with the name is not technically part of the device, and should not appear within the stars. I'm not familiar with the Irish Cunningham arms, but in the group I do heraldry for, there need to be two clear differences between any new proposed arms and already-registered arms.

The Shakefork within the cross of mullets is fine, but the tertiary charge of the silver fern leaf is problematic, as it lies partially on the silver field. One of the earliest rules one learns in heraldry is not to put a metal on a metal, for reasons of contrast. Putting the same metal on metal is right out.

You might consider putting the fern leaf entirely on the shakefork.

Excellent, thanks Mac.

I'm not proposing it (as yet) but it is something to play with and get correct anyway, and advice such as yours, and MOR's would be appreciated.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Here is my attempt at creating something for my family in NZ.

What you have is a logotype, but not a coat of arms. Now if you were to place this logotype within a single continuous line shaped like a shield you would have a coat of arms because it could be blazoned (the primary test). I should also add that it would be a rather... ah hem... poor example of heraldry.

Placing the shakefork between the southern cross is okay. If you feel the need to include the fern, the best choice would be to place it on a sable chief. Finally, whilst scrolls and words do appear on shields from time to time, to the best of my knowledge, they never repeat the family name. That being the case, I'd advise you to loose the scroll with your family name on it.

So, you might consider as a devisal:

Argent within a representation of the Southern Cross constellation a shakefork sable on a chief of the last a silver fern leaf fess ways proper.

There is no need to place the family name on a scroll under the shield, because the shield itself "says" the family name.

[Mr. MacDougall]

A chief, for those who don't speak blazon, is a band across the top of the shield... in this case, a black band from side to side.

[###KILTEDKIWI###]

What you have is a logotype, but not a coat of arms. Now if you were to place this logotype within a single continuous line shaped like a shield you would have a coat of arms because it could be blazoned (the primary test). I should also add that it would be a rather... ah hem... poor example of heraldry.

Placing the shakefork between the southern cross is okay. If you feel the need to include the fern, the best choice would be to place it on a sable chief. Finally, whilst scrolls and words do appear on shields from time to time, to the best of my knowledge, they never repeat the family name. That being the case, I'd advise you to loose the scroll with your family name on it.

So, you might consider as a devisal:

Argent within a representation of the Southern Cross constellation a shakefork sable on a chief of the last a silver fern leaf fess ways proper.

There is no need to place the family name on a scroll under the shield, because the shield itself "says" the family name.

Thanks MOR, it wasnt really an an attempt at heraldry, but as you said, more of a logo, or a tag so to speak, but with the advice given, i will muck around with it and make those changes, and come up with something along those lines, and probably drop the fern.

A chief, for those who don't speak blazon, is a band across the top of the shield... in this case, a black band from side to side.

Again thanks men, i really should of started another thread for this, I have inadvertently hijacked this thread.

[Mike_Oettle]

While there has been a fair amount of discussion of the shakefork, not much has been said about the pall.
Perhaps what I have to say is superfluous, but it does fill in a bit of background.
The term is a shortened form of the Latin pallium, a special stole which the Pope traditionally gifted to his bishops. It forms a Y over the back of the bishop when dressed in his proper regalia.
The Y shape was readily taken up in heraldry because it is a simple shape, readily recognisable, and useful for strengthening the shield as well.
Its normal position resembles the letter Y. When its straight part is at the top, it is called a pall inverted.
A shield can be divided per pall or per pall inverted, which may or may not have a pall overall on top of the division.
Perhaps the best-known example of a pall nowadays is in the South African flag — the green element is a horizontal pall.
It is hardly surprising that the flag was designed by a professional herald, Fred Brownell, now retired from the office of State Herald in Pretoria.
Regards,
Mike