How important is the Declaration of Arbroath..

[auld argonian]

None of the above. I accuse Lost, 24, Project Runway, and the Beatles.

True...the crap that's on TV now makes the crap that was on TV back in the sixties look like Masterpiece Theatre.

Amazing how we have all of this access to all of this information and we STILL can't get people to learn anything.

Best

AA

[macwilkin]

True...the crap that's on TV now makes the crap that was on TV back in the sixties look like Masterpiece Theatre.

Amazing how we have all of this access to all of this information and we STILL can't get people to learn anything.

Best

AA

Again, welcome to my world.

T.

[RB51]

Although I was not the most attentive student 40-some years ago, I still remember fondly some of my teachers who tried to drum the really important stuff, like history and literature, into my skull. Thank you cajunscot, and any other educators that we have on the site, for what you do. Even a little bit of understanding goes a long way.

Laurie

[ThistleDown]

Again, welcome to my world.

T.

Sad, Todd, very sad. The school I attended used (and still does) the highest common denominator as the bar, not the lowest. Off topic, so to get back: you will see from Jock's post that the Arbroath has relatively little meaning in Scotland today.

Rex

[BoldHighlander]

This has been a really interesting thread. To get back to the original question,I doubt very much if many,very few, people in the UK could discuss the D of A and its aftermath to the depth that you chaps have been going. I venture to suggest that most people in Scotland(particularly in the Highlands) would not have a clue what you are talking about. I happened to be in the company of a large number of 16 year old students from the local High school and their teacher yesterday and NOT ONE, knew what the D of A was, NOT ONE knew of the later Scots/Irish connection and NOT ONE seemed to care. I suspect that if I had asked their parents the same questions, the answers would be exactly the same.

Sad, Todd, very sad. The school I attended used (and still does) the highest common denominator as the bar, not the lowest. Off topic, so to get back: you will see from Jock's post that the Arbroath has relatively little meaning in Scotland today.

While I think its sad that the Arboath has little meaning in Scotland today, I think its a sadder commentary that so little of the country's history is known (or cared about) by the nation's youth

Mind you, this is not singular to Scotland, haven't we all laughed & shook our heads at the ignorance of our own American citizens when quizzed by Leno on the streets about historic (as well as daily) events?

[Jock Scot]

While I think its sad that the Arboath has little meaning in Scotland today, I think its a sadder commentary that so little of the country's history is known (or cared about) by the nation's youth

Mind you, this is not singular to Scotland, haven't we all laughed & shook our heads at the ignorance of our own American citizens when quizzed by Leno on the streets about historic (as well as daily) events?

It's worse than that and you chaps may find it hard to understand. Much of Scottish history has been so romanticised by the likes of Sir Walter Scott, Landseer, Mel Gibson etc., willingly aided and abetted by assorted propaganda campaigns, by Kings, politicians and with the willing participation of the tourist industry of the last 150 years with their biscuit box version of Scots history. The nett result of all that, is that there is now a legacy of almost total cynicism to almost all of Scottish history by the Scots.I have noticed this effect for many years now and I am quite convinced that this is one of the reasons that the kilt is not seen as regular everyday wear in Scotland.

[macwilkin]

It's worse than that and you chaps may find it hard to understand. Much of Scottish history has been so romanticised by the likes of Sir Walter Scott, Landseer, Mel Gibson etc., willingly aided and abetted by assorted propaganda campaigns, by Kings, politicians and with the willing participation of the tourist industry of the last 150 years with their biscuit box version of Scots history. The nett result of all that, is that there is now a legacy of almost total cynicism to almost all of Scottish history by the Scots.I have noticed this effect for many years now and I am quite convinced that this is one of the reasons that the kilt is not seen as regular everyday wear in Scotland.

Jock,

Really though, you could easily take out the references to Scotland in your post, plug in USA, and that would be my observations from working for over a decade in public and academic history. I worked as a park ranger at a Civil War Battlefield, and we dealt with the mythology of that conflict, much of it historically inaccurate, on a daily basis.

Of course, that doesn't deter me from attempting to get it right and tell the story -- my mentor, the State Historian of Arizona, once had a student write on his evaluation, "Missing Mr. Trimble's class is like missing something I bought tickets for!" -- that is something I strive for everytime I take the podium and stand in front of a class.

If anything, your post above motivates me to make history a "well-told story" and hopefully get one student interested in its study -- if I've done that, then I've done my job.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,

Really though, you could easily take out the references to Scotland in your post, plug in USA, and that would be my observations from working for over a decade in public and academic history. I worked as a park ranger at a Civil War Battlefield, and we dealt with the mythology of that conflict, much of it historically inaccurate, on a daily basis.

Of course, that doesn't deter me from attempting to get it right and tell the story -- my mentor, the State Historian of Arizona, once had a student write on his evaluation, "Missing Mr. Trimble's class is like missing something I bought tickets for!" -- that is something I strive for everytime I take the podium and stand in front of a class.

If anything, your post above motivates me to make history a "well-told story" and hopefully get one student interested in its study -- if I've done that, then I've done my job.



T.

I don't doubt what you say one bit and I think modern Scotland and its cynical attitude to its past is a salutary lesson to all "commercial" historians. Alright Scotland is a small country compared to the USA, but there is no doubt that as a country we are in desperate need to get our heads out of these mystical clouds.I will give you but one example, until fairly recently(in historical terms) lowland Scots poured ridicule on the kilt and now they wander about talking as though they invented it! Many lowlanders, if you tried to explain the historical facts, simply would not believe you.

Now, there is no doubt that the tourist industry has and still does raise a huge and much needed income for Scotland and the UK in general. However I do believe that the local Scots are now reacting to romantic historical and tartan overload.

Go to it Todd!

[ThistleDown]

It's worse than that and you chaps may find it hard to understand. Much of Scottish history has been so romanticised by the likes of Sir Walter Scott, Landseer, Mel Gibson etc., willingly aided and abetted by assorted propaganda campaigns, by Kings, politicians and with the willing participation of the tourist industry of the last 150 years with their biscuit box version of Scots history. The nett result of all that, is that there is now a legacy of almost total cynicism to almost all of Scottish history by the Scots.I have noticed this effect for many years now and I am quite convinced that this is one of the reasons that the kilt is not seen as regular everyday wear in Scotland.

Hear hear. What we have been on about in this thread and in many others is the inaccuracy of the tales of Scotland told overseas, the myths and romanticism of the Highlands, the clans, Scotland as a whole. I am in total agreement with your last sentence, in partucular, Jock.

[skauwt]

folk have to remember though that in this day and age people are worrying soo much about there future and thats including kids now... that some things that happend umpteen generations ago are somewhat irrelevant to modern life im not saying we all forget them but at the end of the day that declaration makes no impact on most current modern life especially in this country

if you told those men who singed that declaration that the country was going to be a union with 3 other countries 1 being the whole point of the declaration in the first place and that union was aslo partly ruled by another 27 countries do you think they'd have fought so hard
i think they`d have all just gone home and had a stiff drink