What is Traditional Highland Dress?

[artificer]

Plenty of gentleman, my grandfather included, wore baseball caps during WWII. I suppose the Japanese thought the P-61 Black Widow he worked on was far more gastly than his headgear.
T.

I personally know plenty of gentlemen in law enforcement who wear the 'cap' as part of their duty uniform who would take exception to your statement.

Gentlemen, apologies if I have offended. However, I do believe you've mis-interpreted the general tack here. Both of these are examples showing the baseball style cap as part of a uniform. I'd wager that neither of the gentlemen in question wore/wear it where inappropriate.
a)It would be against regulations to wear a casual cap to a 'Class A' function.
b)I doubt the gentleman in law enforcement would wear his duty cap to a 'Policemen's Ball'.

My grandfather worked the railroads for 40+ years (after returning from the war) and frequently wore a baseball style cap in the summers, and wore whatever he could to keep himself warm in winter, HOWEVER, apart from fishing, you'd never see him in that style of cap.

A Gentleman is aware of his situation and surroundings, and dresses to best meet them. Wearing a baseball cap (which isn't part of a uniform or workwear ) indoors, at meals, etc, etc, IS inappropriate.

(Edit: what, the "baseball cap" has evoved even further? Moving onward from the "ball" cap, it is now simply called "the cap"? Just anothwer step towards acceptance as tradition, I say. But, in my ignorance and with much shuddering, I must ask: what is a Chav?)

Unfortunately, the baseball cap is quite nearly the only style of cap to be found these days. Everything else, presumably, is a hat. It may be a tradition, but only in it's proper place. Everywhere else it's a fashion no-no.

A brief summary of the term 'Chav' can be found HERE.

[macwilkin]

Gentlemen, apologies if I have offended. However, I do believe you've mis-interpreted the general tack here. Both of these are examples showing the baseball style cap as part of a uniform. I'd wager that neither of the gentlemen in question wore/wear it where inappropriate.
a)It would be against regulations to wear a casual cap to a 'Class A' function.
b)I doubt the gentleman in law enforcement would wear his duty cap to a 'Policemen's Ball'.

My grandfather worked the railroads for 40+ years (after returning from the war) and frequently wore a baseball style cap in the summers, and wore whatever he could to keep himself warm in winter, HOWEVER, apart from fishing, you'd never see him in that style of cap.

A Gentleman is aware of his situation and surroundings, and dresses to best meet them. Wearing a baseball cap (which isn't part of a uniform or workwear ) indoors, at meals, etc, etc, IS inappropriate.



Unfortunately, the baseball cap is quite nearly the only style of cap to be found these days. Everything else, presumably, is a hat. It may be a tradition, but only in it's proper place. Everywhere else it's a fashion no-no.

A brief summary of the term 'Chav' can be found HERE.

Perhaps then you should tone down your generalizations about everyone who wears a ball cap. As you state above, my grandfather knew the time and place to wear casual headgear, as do I. I wore one with an NPS arrowhead emblem with our Class B uniforms when working in the field, but I wouldn't dare wear one with the Class A's at an official ceremony or when presenting a campfire program to tourists.

As OC Richard mentioned, many pipe bands now wear ball caps with their logo when they are not performing or competing. I have an Iowa Scottish Pipes & Drums ball cap, for example.

If you're not a big fan of them, then fine. I'm really not a big devotee of them myself, although I do own several caps that I do wear in very casual circumstances. But that hardly makes me less than a gentleman.

Apologies for misunderstanding your words.

T.

[artificer]

...As you state above, my grandfather knew the time and place to wear casual headgear, as do I. ...

If you're not a big fan of them, then fine. I'm really not a big devotee of them myself, although I do own several caps that I do wear in very casual circumstances. But that hardly makes me less than a gentleman.

T.

I would argue that, because you DO know the time and place to wear one, it makes you MORE of a gentleman.

I am not personally a fan of the baseball cap, nor any other head-wear. I just don't have a 'hat head'. I'll start wearing hats when I go bald

(Finally!) Back to the topic. Nobody in their right mind can say that a baseball cap is Traditional Highland wear, and apart from a brief fad early in the last century, the flat cap falls into the same category.

I cannot imagine having the brass ones to tell a forum of actual Highlanders who have worn the kilt all their lives what is, or isn't Traditional Highland wear.

And cajunscot, you are correct. I was too sweeping in my generalization (or perhaps, not specific enough in my criticism). My apologies once more.

[Lyle1]

I would argue that, because you DO know the time and place to wear one, it makes you MORE of a gentleman.

I personally feel that knowledge of social customs is less an indicator of a person's status as a gentleman than the way he acts!

[artificer]

I personally feel that knowledge of social customs is less an indicator of a person's status as a gentleman than the way he acts!

I do believe, however, that you need a knowledge of social customs to 'guide' you in proper behavior. What is appropriate behavior at the ball park, in most cases, isn't in a formal setting. The same works in reverse. You'd never wear formal attire to a BBQ (unless it was part of a charity fundraiser or other exceptional circumstance). Good manners and proper etiquette are appropriate everywhere.



I think I've done my part to thoroughly derail this thread

[Jock Scot]

Micric.

I am not at all sure that I did say that I would wear a deerstalker/F&A if I was kilted shooting and fishing and "ONLY" for those pastimes, although they would most certainly be my choice for those particular pastimes and I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

I would happily wear the Deerstalker/F&A to any informal kilted event up to say Highland Games, Game fair type events. Although I do, in fact, choose to wear a balmoral most of the time.

[MacBean]

I find the hat discussion most interesting, but let me digress.

If in an imaginary world, the kilt existed when most Scots came to the New Worlds, and if Highland culture had survived the struggles of frontier life in a recognizable fashion, and if adaptations to Traditional Highland Dress were made to suit the New World climate, would they then be considered variant adaptations ofTraditional Highland Dress? I rather think they might, as long as we rule out the wild costuming. Am I off topic?

Perhaps we would not wear jackets in hot weather. Perhaps we would have retained and adapted the mocasin-like footwear of the Highlands of yore. But what about hats (and dark glasses), both of which are useful adaptations to the much increased sunlight in the New World? Don't we need a new Highland wear hat for the weather in the Americas?

Let's start with the deerstalker; others have said it would serve. Can someone post pictures of Highland Dress with a "fore and aft" or deerstalker? I can't find any.

Failing that, I haven't been convinced that the Balmoral or Glengarry serve well, though the New Worlds have tried to make them work. One, it seems that they are either out-of-place or over-used as "Traditional Highland Dress". Two, they don't really serve as weather protection. I realize the following cap is considered paramillitary, but wonder if it isn't one of the more practical adapations while in the field? If not this, then what? Are we not to make adaptations for time and place appropriate for the New Worlds?

[Lyle1]

I do believe, however, that you need a knowledge of social customs to 'guide' you in proper behavior. What is appropriate behavior at the ball park, in most cases, isn't in a formal setting. The same works in reverse. You'd never wear formal attire to a BBQ (unless it was part of a charity fundraiser or other exceptional circumstance). Good manners and proper etiquette are appropriate everywhere.



I think I've done my part to thoroughly derail this thread

Yes custom, and in particular, that which is accepted as manners, make navigating social situations much easier, but lacking knowledge of specific customs or manners, one can usually use common sense as a guide to proper behavior. I firmly believe that the essence of what constitutes a gentleman resides in that part of the brain that influences standards of conduct or behavior, rather than in the part of the brain that helps one remember what shoe to wear.

[Brian K]

I personally feel that knowledge of social customs is less an indicator of a person's status as a gentleman than the way he acts!

Lyle,

I tend, in the main, to agree with you here. While there can be certain advantages to being able to negotiate the pitfalls of social convention and custom, there have been many I have known who are always impeccably turned out and who can always be certain of using the correct implement in the correct manner at table, but who I would not trust with my wallet or anything else of value or importance.

My two favorite definitions of a gentleman (and i suppose they would also define a lady):

"A gentleman is one who never offends anyone unintentionally."

"A gentleman treats others without regards to his interests."

To mix and paraphrase the two, I would suppose that a gentleman strives continually to make sure that all persons are comfortable in his presence whether or not those persons are able to help or hinder him in anything he desires to accomplish.

To assume that someone who is always and everywhere is properly dressed and who has a thorough knowledge of social conventions is a gentleman is a mistake as much as assuming that someone who is poorly dressed and possessed of lower class manners is not. The ultimate test of a gentleman (or a lady) is how he (or she) treats others.

Regards,

Brian

[macwilkin]

Lyle,

I tend, in the main, to agree with you here. While there can be certain advantages to being able to negotiate the pitfalls of social convention and custom, there have been many I have known who are always impeccably turned out and who can always be certain of using the correct implement in the correct manner at table, but who I would not trust with my wallet or anything else of value or importance.

My two favorite definitions of a gentleman (and i suppose they would also define a lady):

"A gentleman is one who never offends anyone unintentionally."

"A gentleman treats others without regards to his interests."

To mix and paraphrase the two, I would suppose that a gentleman strives continually to make sure that all persons are comfortable in his presence whether or not those persons are able to help or hinder him in anything he desires to accomplish.

To assume that someone who is always and everywhere is properly dressed and who has a thorough knowledge of social conventions is a gentleman is a mistake as much as assuming that someone who is poorly dressed and possessed of lower class manners is not. The ultimate test of a gentleman (or a lady) is how he (or she) treats others.

Regards,

Brian

I've always thought this poem sums up what being a gentleman is quite nicely:

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/int/lredgod.html

T.