"To Ignorance and Beyond!!!"

[O'Callaghan]

I'm slightly staggered that Ms Autumn is unaware of the origins of her name. Still I've never had a very high regard for academic study outside of the great universities. I've met too many people with degrees who seem to unable to read, write, add and subtract construct an argument or make a plan based on an appreciation of the situation or indeed - think.

I usually hear that said by people who couldn't get into university. However, you did exempt the 'great' universities, but if you mean Oxbridge then their quirky admission systems ensure that they are mostly populated by those who merely went to the 'right' school and aren't necessarily any brighter than students elsewhere, with a sprinkling of true genii from humble origins, such as Dudley Moore, for example (I don't allege that he was ever the world's greatest comedian, merely very bright).

All that said, at the end of my first year studying electrical engineering at university a student near the top of the class (I was nearer the bottom) asked me how many legs there were on a transistor. There are invariably three, occasionally four. I took it for granted that he had never seen one(!), but what I couldn't understand was how he wasn't able to reason that if three are shown in the circuit diagramme (or schematic as Americans call it) then there might very well be three on the real thing (and maybe an extra one if a guard or substrate electrode or some such is also shown). So in fact yes, you can send someone to university, but you can't make them think.

[Brian K]

I usually hear that said by people who couldn't get into university. .

In Courtmount's defense, I have known many very bright, highly educated people who are unable to think in the manner I think he intends, not because of some native inability, but rather because they have been entirely too specialized in their education. Engineers who only know engineering. Chemists who only know chemistry. Business students who care nothing about anything outside their field of specialty. There are, of course, other examples, but I assume you get the point. Those who study subjects in the humanities and social sciences tend to be more generalists due to the natures of their fields of study, but even they can be too narrowly focused.

The main culprit would seem to be the tendency to see education as a job track activity. Why learn something you won't need to make a living? I wish we could get back to the idea of education for its own sake as a way of guaranteeing a rich and interesting intellectual life. Going to school should fit you for making a life as well as making a living.

Regards,

Brian

[londonpiper]

I usually hear that said by people who couldn't get into university. However, you did exempt the 'great' universities, but if you mean Oxbridge then their quirky admission systems ensure that they are mostly populated by those who merely went to the 'right' school and aren't necessarily any brighter than students elsewhere, with a sprinkling of true genii from humble origins, such as Dudley Moore, for example (I don't allege that he was ever the world's greatest comedian, merely very bright).

As someone who has lived and worked in both Oxbridge towns for a large part of their life, may I reassure one and all that the stereotype portrayed above is almost non existent. Certainly with regard to the graduates and undergrads I meet every week.
Perhaps it's been a while since O'Callahan visited either of them.

[macwilkin]

I'm slightly staggered that Ms Autumn is unaware of the origins of her name. Still I've never had a very high regard for academic study outside of the great universities. I've met too many people with degrees who seem to unable to read, write, add and subtract construct an argument or make a plan based on an appreciation of the situation or indeed -think.

I'll take an education from a land grant university over the so-called "great" universities any day.

http://www.iastate.edu/IaStater/1997/feb/landgrant.html

I've also never been one for generalisations, especially when it comes to people.

T.*

* Who is proud of the work he did for his BA and MA.

[Whidbey78]

I'll take an education from a land grant university over the so-called "great" universities any day.

http://www.iastate.edu/IaStater/1997/feb/landgrant.html

I've also never been one for generalisations, especially when it comes to people.

T.*

* Who is proud of the work he did for his BA and MA.

I agree. I'd rather have small classes, get my questions answered, and spend my time on my studies rather than have professors who don't bother to learn my name and spend my time at the yacht club. And I think that those who believe that small colleges don't give you a good education are either snobs or born into money. Either way, I couldn't care less what those peoples' opinions are.

As for not knowing exactly where the name came from, I believe we have a case of low reading comprehension. First, it's her married name, so she probably isn't concerned with it. Second, I can't fault her for not knowing or caring where a name is from, because it may not matter to her as she is probably and hopefully more concerned with her husband's character and personality than where his dead ancestors got on a boat. Maybe he is adopted. Maybe she knows all about it but just wanted to end the conversation. Who cares? That wasn't the point of the story. Some guys will go to a movie and stare at their popcorn.

Did courtmount say where he went to school? I got bored with the examples of ignorance and skipped most of it. Oh, and I found the speling an grammur mistrakes quiet destracting(that is a joke for those who don't get it).

And Danny Bohy is one funny Scot!

[macwilkin]

And I think that those who believe that small colleges don't give you a good education are either snobs or born into money.

Again, see my comments regarding generalisations.

To quote the milkman Teyve, "if money is a disease, my G-d strike me down with it, and may I never recover!"

T.

[Whidbey78]

Again, see my comments regarding generalisations.

To quote the milkman Teyve, "if money is a disease, my G-d strike me down with it, and may I never recover!"

T.

The post we were both alluding to says that the writer does not believe that a good education is to be had at any but the major universities. Hence--snob status. I will grant that I do not know his financial condition nor that of his family.

But I think we can all agree that he missed the point of the story.

[macwilkin]

The post we were both alluding to says that the writer does not believe that a good education is to be had at any but the major universities. Hence--snob status. I will grant that I do not know his financial condition nor that of his family.

But I think we can all agree that he missed the point of the story.

Point well taken.

T.

[MacBean]

I agree. I'd rather have small classes, get my questions answered, and spend my time on my studies rather than have professors who don't bother to learn my name and spend my time at the yacht club.

Don't mean to single Whidbey out, but having been to Ivy League, Land Grant, large and small colleges and universities, I can say for sure that any generalizations are worthless. There are branch campuses of the State schools that have small classes and lovely helpful atmospheres. There are land grant universities that have nothing but commuter campuses. There are great and awful professors at all of them. The 'best" schools do in fact attract very intelligent and enterprising students, creating a wonderful learning environment in contrast to the party schools.

[Whidbey78]

Don't mean to single Whidbey out, but having been to Ivy League, Land Grant, large and small colleges and universities, I can say for sure that any generalizations are worthless. There are branch campuses of the State schools that have small classes and lovely helpful atmospheres. There are land grant universities that have nothing but commuter campuses. There are great and awful professors at all of them. The 'best" schools do in fact attract very intelligent and enterprising students, creating a wonderful learning environment in contrast to the party schools.

I agree. I just get irked by people who seem to think that a good education can't be earned at colleges without big well known names or high five or even six figure annual costs. Ultimately when it comes to the value and quality of education it comes down to the students and instructors and not the institution's name. Often people will cite the graduates average starting salary as an indicator of the quality of education, but I believe that opening doors to a career that the individual truly enjoys is more valuable. That's not to say that I would dislike the Harvard grad's starting salary over Podunk State's, but money is secondary.

I also agree that party schools are not the best choice. My wife went to one and it actually hindered her a bit starting her career though she was well ranked in her class. She has since proven herself well and has shaken the stink from her school. Early on she had several interviewers comment about it being a heck of a place to learn important skills such as beer pong and quarters. All is well now though. She's finishing her masters in education, but at a more educationally respected institution.