New and looking for help identifying a photo

[McKenith]

Sorry about the photo. I linked it to the one I have on Ancestry.com, but evidently that didn't work.

Trying a different location:
<a href="http://s335.photobucket.com/albums/m444/LeeMcKenith/Ancestors/?action=view&current=JohnMcNeillyGrandpa.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m444/LeeMcKenith/Ancestors/JohnMcNeillyGrandpa.jpg" border="0" alt="John McNeilly"></a>

Thanks for the Welcomes!!

Diane

[Arlen]

Welcome, Diane.


Looks like a regimental uniform to me. I couldn't be positive, but it looks like Gordon Highlanders?

Anyone else care to chip in?

[BoldHighlander]

Looks like a regimental uniform to me. I couldn't be positive, but it looks like Gordon Highlanders?

Anyone else care to chip in?

That would be my guess too.

[Spc. Scott]

Double post

[Spc. Scott]

Welcome, Diane.


Looks like a regimental uniform to me. I couldn't be positive, but it looks like Gordon Highlanders?

Anyone else care to chip in?

That would be my guess too.

I'm no expert but I would have to agree with this as well. I wish I could make out the badge on his glengarry...

That is a great piece of family history. Thanks for sharing it. Love me some vintage photos.

[BobsYourUncle]

Welcome, Diane.


Looks like a regimental uniform to me. I couldn't be positive, but it looks like Gordon Highlanders?

Anyone else care to chip in?

I agree, the tartan looks like the Gordon Highlanders. Given that the photo is Canadian, and is of a Canadian, a good working hypothesis for the investigation is that the worthy fellow belonged to a sister Regiment in Canada. A likely possibility is the 48th Highlanders of Canada--they would have worn the Gordon tartan. The cap badge is not the "Bydand" stag cap badge of the Gordon's UK, however, it does resemble the circular cap badge worn by the 48th Highlanders. The cap badge is somewhat indistinct in the photo, but it seems to be generally circular, and it does not seem to contain a St Andrew's cross or saltire. Here is a pic of the 48th Highlander cap badge for comparison:



The sporran is a bit confusing to me, as it seems to be a Black Watch pattern. However, I have learned through my own research that sporran patterns varied the most, and regimental sporrans evolved considerably over time, and what was worn was somewhat subject to availability, so I am not necessarily put off by the sporran.

You might consider researching the rolls of the 48th Highlanders for your relative's name, and the curator of the Regimental museum may help you identify the uniform in a more definitive fashion. You could also request your relatives' war records from the archives--service records would identify the Regiment(s) with which your relative served. Good luck! Cheers!

[Ancienne Alliance]

Welcome from France !

It’s good to have you here.




Best,

Robert & Lady Chrystel

[BoldHighlander]

First, I forgot when later viewing this photo that it was (probably) taken in Canada

I agree, the tartan looks like the Gordon Highlanders. Given that the photo is Canadian, and is of a Canadian, a good working hypothesis for the investigation is that the worthy fellow belonged to a sister Regiment in Canada. A likely possibility is the 48th Highlanders of Canada--they would have worn the Gordon tartan.

Actually the 48th wears Davidson, not Gordon. No Canadian regiment (that I have found tartans listed for) wore the Gordon tartan....However being it's a black & white photo, the overstripe could be red, as is seen in the Davidson...

The cap badge is not the "Bydand" stag cap badge of the Gordon's UK, however, it does resemble the circular cap badge worn by the 48th Highlanders. The cap badge is somewhat indistinct in the photo, but it seems to be generally circular, and it does not seem to contain a St Andrew's cross or saltire. Here is a pic of the 48th Highlander cap badge for comparison:

Just for sake of comparison here are two photos of WW1 era Gordons.
In the first the badge does appear somewhat round:



In the second, however we can clearly see the "horseshoe shaped" ivy wreath
(though some further back, due to angle etc, do look round):



Other badge comparisons:

Reginald Arthur Blyth
67th Battalion (Western Scots) C.E.F.
August 10, 1916
(to bad he's wearing a kilt apron & we cannot view the tartan)


Seaforth Highlanders of Canada

in this photo taken in France, the tartan sort of resembles the one in question,
but the cap badge is obviously wrong:


Piper James (Jimmy) Cleland Richardson VC (in the Seaforths uniform)
note his sporran:


I think we can rule out these regiments....

(continued below)

[BoldHighlander]

Continued from above)

The sporran is a bit confusing to me, as it seems to be a Black Watch pattern. However, I have learned through my own research that sporran patterns varied the most, and regimental sporrans evolved considerably over time, and what was worn was somewhat subject to availability, so I am not necessarily put off by the sporran.

I am bothered by the sporran too!

If this was during the war I probably would agree that it was subject to availability,
however we're told this photo is circa 1920, and this is the sporran the 48th were wearing at that time:


it's very distinct from the one being shown in the photo in question.

Like you, in looking at just the sporran in the photo in question,
I'd say it looks a lot like the Black Watch (13th Battalion Black Watch of Canada C Company circa 1924):


But the rest of the uniform (tartan & cap badge) are wrong for the Black Watch
Besides the cap badge, I wish we could better see the collar badges.

In reviewing my collection of WW1 era Canadian photos,
I'm starting to lean in the direction of the 48th as well (see uniforms below):

John Cannon Stothers and Jim Paterson, 15th Battalion, 1916:


This NCO was a member of one of Canada's most famous regiments,
The 48th Highlanders of Canada. The 15th battalion of the C.E.F. was
recruited from the 48th which was a Toronto based militia regiment already
in existence prior to WW1. The distinctive cap and collar badges of the 48th
were incorporated into the 15th Battalion's badges.

The 15th was part of the 3rd Brigade of the 1st Division of the Canadian
Expeditionary Force and arrived in France on 15 September 1915. Over the
next three years the unit was engaged in many of the war's most famous battles
such as Vimy, Passchendaele, Festubert, Mount Sorrel, The Somme, Hill 70, Arras,
Amiens and many more.

An unsteady hand has written the name "Jimmy Bryce, 15th Can. Bn. 1918"
on the reverse of this RPPC taken in The Wykenham Studios, 304 High Holborn.


Men from the 15th Battalion, 48th Highlanders of Canada, newly arrived on the
siding of Exhibition Station (not the current one; the siding pictured was further west).
Having reached Halifax on 7 May 1919, the battalion history tells us that the men
entrained for Toronto and after "a gay journey and an unforgettable one," the unit's
782 officers and enlisted men "rolled up to the Exhibition sidings and were clambering
out in a hysteria of greetings as half the city crowded the grounds to meet them."


Note too the wearing of Government/BW tartan by regiments that normally did not wear it.
I don't read too much into that as it seems a common stop gap measure during the war.
That pesky sporran though keeps throwing me!

Diane, do you know where in Canada your grandparents resided in 1920?
This would go a long way in narrowing down which regiment your grandfather served in.

[BobsYourUncle]

[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]Diane, do you know where in Canada your grandparents resided in 1920?
This would go a long way in narrowing down which regiment your grandfather served in.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Bold Highlander is right on here--this is the best advice. In fact, the Rootsweb Canadian Military Heritage Project gives exactly the same advice. Here is an except from their website, found here: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~canmil/ancestor.htm

Pre-First World War Canadian Military Records
Except for the South African War, detailed personnel records for the Canadian military were not kept prior to the First World War. Earlier records consist mainly of muster rolls and paylists, which contain little or no personal information. As most are not indexed, the regiment must be known before you can attempt a search. If you know your ancestor's place of residence, you might find references to his service in the militia rolls for that county. Most of these lists are found within the NAC Department of Militia and Defence series (RG 9), parts of which are available on microfilm.

It would appear that his regiment cannot be easily identified from what we can make out in the photo. Assuming that this photo is post WW1, a search on Ancestry.com and/or the Canadian Military Heritage Project site may locate your ancestor. However, as Bold Highlander advises, it is very important to learn where your ancestor resided throughout his life, especially in the years following his 1910 arrival. Where your ancestor lived is crucial in genealogical investigation--it tells you where you will find public records containing information about their life.

If this is in fact the uniform of a local militia unit taken prior to WW1 and not one of the "regional" or "national" regiments, you may not be able to find records of his military service without knowing where he lived, and thus what local unit he may have belonged to. You would then, perhaps, have to access the National Archives microfilm for the county in question.

Knowing where he lived is also the key to finding other public records that can tell you about his life--such as church records, census records, property records, city or town directories. It is critical that you find out from any other relatives of his generation or the next one, where he lived. You should interview relatives to find out if any family bibles, correspondence or other documents exist, held by family members, that could have information about where he lived. He may have lived in several places. Any information you are able to find can be used to identify him in online searches at www.familysearch.org and ancestry.com, which will hopefully get you more information, which you can then use to assist even more searches.

It could also be helpful to get books from your library about researching Canadian genealogy and especially researching Canadian military service--they may have even better informed advice than we are able to give. Such books can tell you in more detail what kind of records were kept at the time he served, and where those records are stored today. You can look for online discussion groups associated with Canadian genealogy and get help and advice from others who been successful doing such research.

Genealogy is not rocket science, but the way to get results is to be methodical in your investigation. Your ancestor lived, worked, served in the military, and records of all of that exist in many places in Canada. The records are out there, and with a little persistence you can find them. You will be amazed at what you find, and the discoveries you make along the way can be magical. There are also lots of people out there eager and willing to help--part of the fun is in making new friends and learning from them.

Good luck. Keep us posted on how it all goes. Cheers, BYU