XMTS mentioned

**BEEDEE** · 13th September 10, 05:51 AM

Two threads on this subject have already been closed because members cannot keep religion or politics out of their discussion. See: Rule #5 - Discussions espousing one particular religious belief or political system over another or comparison of one belief or system to another will not be allowed.

This is nothing more than a tartan created to mark an event. Please keep remarks to discussion on the tartan itself and not the event.

Brian

**AFS1970** · 14th September 10, 03:09 PM

People need to stop being so touchy about religion. Yes the tartan was created to commemorate an event, and undeniably Roman Catholic event. The Tartan is named for a Saint, it commemorates a Papal visit. Like it or not, agree or disagree, but the Pope (hence the word Papal) is Roman Catholic. There is no way to remove religion from the discussion unless we want to have something like this:

Hey everyone, Matt just created a tartan called [censored], in honor of the [censored] visit to Scotland. The tartan is called [censored] because the visit will occur on [censored] day. Matt was contacted by a [censored] organization to do this in honor of the [censored]. Matt said he was proud to be selected for this because he is a [censored].

So if you enjoy reading Pravda I guess that is the way to go. I make no secret of the fact that while I do not make the rules I do not agree with this one and think it is usually enforced in a far more heavy handed manner then all the other rules. I also am beginning to dislike the fact that long before any forum staff have a chance to read such thread, there are those among the Kilted Brethren that almost gleefully bring up this rule, but oddly enough only against one religion.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 16th September 10, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by BEEDEE

Rule #5 - Discussions espousing one particular religious belief or political system over another or comparison of one belief or system to another will not be allowed.

This is nothing more than a tartan created to mark an event. Please keep remarks to discussion on the tartan itself and not the event.

Whilst I agree with Brian's sentiments, I think that under Rule 5 it is quite possible to mention the event, in passing, without proselytizing on behalf of any one particular religious denomination.

The event, as I see it, is the official visit to Scotland by the Head of State of the Vatican -- a tiny country to be sure, but one that exchanges ambassadors with numerous other countries, including the United States. The State visit of Benedict XVI to Scotland is, in my opinion, no different than a State visit to Scotland by any other Head of State.

If the King of Saudi Arabia came to Scotland and was presented with a commemorative tartan, the event-- as well as the tartan-- would be worthy of respectful, and insightful comment.

I found Matt's use of representative thread count and colour combinations to be in the best possible traditions of meaningful design. Explaining how he conceived the design of the tartan had nothing to do with espousing the superiority of one religious denomination over another, and everything to do with explaining the representational meaning of the design itself.

**Nighthawk** · 16th September 10, 10:04 AM

Hey now!! I'm Pagan! I'm started to feel really excluded, and my feelings are starting to bruise. I'm gonna go cry now.

Man, people get so worked up sometimes!

So- anyone have a link to a picture of this tartan? I haven't seen it yet and can't seem to find it...

**Tobus** · 16th September 10, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

So- anyone have a link to a picture of this tartan? I haven't seen it yet and can't seem to find it...

Matt posted some pics of it here, including him wearing a kilt in this tartan:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...20/index2.html
(I especially like his up-close shot of the tartan fabric; it really showcases the splendid way the colors come together in the weave.)

And some media pics here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-fife-11245080

I think it's a fabulous looking tartan, and Matt has quite an artistic eye. It takes a bit of skill to make a tartan that looks as good as that AND have significance to the thread count and colors.

Surely all the press coverage should be a boon to Matt's notoriety and business. Congrats to him!

**Inchessi** · 17th September 10, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Hey now!! I'm Pagan! I'm started to feel really excluded, and my feelings are starting to bruise. I'm gonna go cry now.

Man, people get so worked up sometimes!

Relax, nothing personal, I have friends, who have friends, who know pagans.

**Nighthawk** · 21st September 10, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Inchessi

Relax, nothing personal, I have friends, who have friends, who know pagans.

Oh good! I feel much better now!

**McClef** · 16th September 10, 10:39 AM

MOR is correct - Rule #5 does not prevent the mention of religion and religious activity. The reason why the person AFS1970 refers to has not attracted complaints may well be because they have not espoused their religion as being better than another etc.

We have had some very good threads, especially regarding kilts in religious situations without heat or arguing pros and cons.

And it is not just comments made about one religion alone that the rule gets cited against as has been claimed. Look at past threads and not just at the current ones to see what I mean.

**AFS1970** · 17th September 10, 12:31 AM

After re-reading Rule #5 two things occurred to me. First of all I have never seen a post in my short time here that espoused or compared one religion as better or more favorable to another, even in one case where it was ruled that it had. However I have seen a few where just the opposite has happened, a post had compared a religion as worse than or less favorable than another or in general. This is far worse in my mind because it is far less civil and less community minded. There are religions that I disagree with, I just don't feel the need to post about them here, as such situations rarely have anything to do with kilts, tartans or pretty much anything Scottish.

**McClef** · 17th September 10, 03:56 PM

Whether is it espousing or belittling the same problem would be created re rule #5.

There are folk here from many different religions and none but we (I hope) are united in our love of kilts, and Scottish/Celtic culture etc.

So when a tartan is designed by a well respected and knowledgeable member that is successful and well publicised that surely deserves our congratulations and celebration irrespective of any other factor.

As a certain, brilliant, TV ad here in the UK says:

"Simples."