Project Blog - Historic Sporrans / Brass Cantle Project

[English Bloke]

Could I ask that our moderating team please put a sticky on this thread so we can find it easily. I've a feeling this will be a very popular topic. Tremendous subject Scott, I'll be following this with great interest.

[artificer]

A very quick update:

I just got back from a meeting with my metal smith to solidify a few points on the mechanical drawings.

With luck we'll have the master cut by next week, and a final quote from his foundry before that.

Based on his expert guess, everything is a go for the two cantle types outlined in my initial post. The 'soft quote' per-unit will allow me to purchase a short run, at least.

The one down-side may be that depending on the flask size (great big box of pressure-pounded sand) used, we may or may not be able to have room for the ornate Victorian cantle I've been hoping would be the third option.

The good news is that I have the facilities to pewter cast these in my home shop. This I may do along with a very limited run of some of the MacLeay 'Historic Cantles'. Some of those shapes are so unusual I'm actually haunted by them, having never seen their ilk in pix or in person.

[ThistleDown]

Just one more post, Scott, and I'll be printing the whole lot for addition to my shop bookcase. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to educate us all.

[artificer]

Just one more post, Scott, and I'll be printing the whole lot for addition to my shop bookcase. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to educate us all.

(underlining is my emphasis)

Thank you, but I only wish that were the case. In many ways I feel like I'm trying to re-discover the secret of fire. I'm having to discover by trial and error and inference what is already out there, somewhere. I'm not sure how good an education anyone reading this will be getting.

Regarding the MacLeay illustrated sporrans, there is surprisingly little actually printed (at least that is available in the US) on the bags of this era. There is also next-to-no good info on the internet about these authentic early 19thC. sporrans.

We see lots of debate about kilts and tartans, with facts about weights, yardage and such tossed about willy-nilly, but not very much on the 'anatomy', if you will, of some of these sporrans.

Much of the construction can be assumed, based on leather working techniques, the properties of leather, and pix I've seen of surviving samples. There are some fine detail issues that I really am having trouble resolving.

If I were in Scotland and had access to a few of the museums or families with heirloom pieces I could sort many of these out in very short order.

I'm well aware that I'm probably making more work for myself by trying to achieve more historical accuracy than is really needed, ESPECIALLY given the wide variation I've seen in how some of these surviving pieces WERE constructed.

It wouldn't be the first time I've made things harder than they needed to be... and I'm sure it won't be the last.

[Highland Logan]

This is a clip of a sporran being made in the '50s.. not as old as you want, but may help to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Frank

[artificer]

This is a clip of a sporran being made in the '50s.. not as old as you want, but may help to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Frank

Thanks Frank. I actually watched that video MANY a time when I was building my first few sporrans. It's awesome to see such a skilled worker speed through a process he's no-doubt done hundreds of times before.

Unfortunately, that style of bag doesn't have too much to do with the type shown below on the right (image via Imagekind)


I've seen first hand examples from about the 1880s, but nothing as far back as the 1810s. There are just a few small details in finishing that I'd like to get square.

What I really need is someone with a family piece from that time I could examine pix of, or someone who is specifically familiar with the sporrans of that era and willing to provide some knowledge.

If worse comes to, I could simply base the missing details off of the 1880's examples I've got documented and assume that not too much changed in that ~70 years. I'd rather not do that though.

Again, it's all really just my fixation with trying to make as accurate a piece as I can, which is making more work than might be needed.

[Highland Logan]

Have you checked out these photos from the Scottish Tartans Museum? Matt posted them here once as well.

Frank

[Drac]

Here is a reproduction of some wood carvings from around the Revolutionary time. Not the most detailed photo but maybe you can use it. This is from my wife's hometown of Ogdensburg.



Jim

[artificer]

Have you checked out these photos from the Scottish Tartans Museum? Matt posted them here once as well.

Frank

Oh Yes! The Muirhead c1854 is one I'd dearly like a really good sit-down with.

I've got about 200 pix from museums and sites like X-Marks documenting everything I could find. There is, unfortunately, nothing like actually seeing something for yourself.

Here is a reproduction of some wood carvings from around the Revolutionary time. Not the most detailed photo but maybe you can use it. This is from my wife's hometown of Ogdensburg.
Jim

Thanks Jim. Every little bit helps.

One thing I'd love to have access to:

I'd read where on some hair sporrans, multiple layers of material were built up, long haired goat or sheep underneath the horsehair to provide more bulk and loft to the body. I've not seen one of these photographed (at least not so it shows the multiple materials), but I'd like a peek at one of these as well.

[HeathBar]

Something you may want to look into are some sporrans being sold by http://www.glengarryhats.com/
They are modeled after those seen in the R.R McIan clan portraits. So it is a similar idea that you have. Though I think theirs are mass produced in some place.