A Question of Taste...

[Brian K]

Just as I suspected! I did have a kind of funny image of this though... Jock Scot is innocently looking at a random Xmarker's post about box-pleated kilts or flatcaps and receives an immediate knuckle rapping from Mrs. Jock Scot

I heartily approve of Mrs. Jock Scot's taste. Because she thought his bonnet ought to be binned I am now the proud owner of a Robert Mackie Balmoral that, to my untutored eye, was practically as good as new!

Regards,

Brian

[Jock Scot]

Jock Scot wrote: “I have a Highland Scot as a wife and should I stray from the kilted straight and narrow, I am soon and unerringly put back on course!”

I notice, though, Jock, that while she puts you on the kilted straight and narrow, she wears tartan pants – hardly traditional Highland attire for men or women.
Then again, my wife wears (black) pants all the time. I am not knocking women who prefer not to wear skirts. But I do wonder what happened to skirt-wearing.
Regards,
Mike

Some Highland ladies wear their tartan as a pair of trousers(pants are underwear over here)particularly during the winter and during midgie time. They are not worn as every day attire but for more smart day events. Mrs. Jock does have a fair selection of skirts in my tartan too.

I have to confess that I very much like it when she wears my tartan( as a married lady she does not wear her own) and she ought to do it more often. Interestingly we try to avoid matching the hue of our tartans and as we had been to separate functions that day in different counties well.......... However the photographer "caught" us, on our return, having a stroll by the river at home in the late afternoon , before tea. Not a picture to be used as an example, I fear, of how it is usually done in the Highlands!

It is a good job that Mrs. Jock does not contribute to this website(although she has) as I have a feeling that her rather forthright views on improper Highland attire may break every rule---and some--- that we have here!

[AKScott]

How would you define your taste in kilt attire?

What is/are your main influence(s)? Have they changed over time?

How has Xmarks contributed to how you approach the kilt?

In general my taste leans to traditional. I might pick up a modern kilt to fill out my wardrobe, might not. I am really looking forward to smoking some baby back ribs this summer in my least expensive kilt, barefoot, in a T-shirt with writing on it. Most of the time I am shooting for looks from day wear to formal.

My influences before X-marks were pipe bands and apocryphal family legends.

Now that I know of Xmarks, I can see the kilt as attire rather than costume.

[robbiethepiper]

Jock Scot beat me pointing it out, but I too would like to strongly advise visitors to the UK that trousers are outerwear here, pants are underwear. Forgetting could lead to embarassing or hilarious situations.....

[Whidbey78]

First, CMcG, very nice pics! An interesting topic as well.

I'll give it a go.

***How would you define your taste in kilt attire? ***
When dressed up a bit, I go for what I like to call "pseudo-traditional." It's traditional style with a bit of a modern/contemporary twist. I avoid most of the traditional cuffs, shiny buttons, epaulettes, etc. It's not because I don't like the look--it just doesn't work for me. I'm not a Scot by birth, but some of my ancestors were. I feel a bit out of place in very traditional dress, almost as if I'm wearing a respected uniform as a costume. So, I keep things as simple as possible, but make an effort to "tip my hat" to tradition. I do wear various flashes and garter ties, traditional style kilt belts, etc. when dressed up, but don't go for really ornate pieces.

For casual wear, which is about 90% of my kilt wearing, I usually go with hiking boots or chuckas, polos or t-shirts, with BDU or police style duty belts or plain leather belts. I've taken to wearing sweaters this past fall and winter, but sometimes wear a plain t-shirt with a 1/4 zip pullover. When really casual I'll wear boonie hats or even ballcaps.

Like the OP, I usually ask my wife which setup she prefers. She too has learned a lot, and has a good eye, especially for color.


***What is/are your main influence(s)? Have they changed over time?***

My main influences when dressed casually range from the likes of Panache and Riverkilt to Rowdy Roddy Piper. I'm sure I'll get banned for that one!

When dressed up, I'd say that I am working toward emulating HRH Prince Charles. The man has a lot of style, but he does it in an understated way that seems very natural and fits him perfectly. Of course, he has people to help him out with that, but I think mostly it just comes from him. There are numerous folks on this site who have been influential as well. Panache and Robert(Ancienne Alliance) would be two of the big ones. Of course Jock's writings on the forum helped me get out of that matchy-matchy mentality I had, which led to me find my own style...flatcap and all(Sorry Jock).


***How has Xmarks contributed to how you approach the kilt?***

By learning about its history, construction, etc, I became much more comfortable with it, and was able to find my own style. I went kilted for the first time at my wedding. I had always wanted a kilt, and bought one after a lot of shopping and research, but dwelled too much on the kilt itself so the rest of the kit wound up being rental. If I had known then what I know now my wife and I wouldn't have looked like a catalog advertizement! It was very "cookie-cutter" except that I had black hose because given a choice I never wear white!

More importantly, it let me know that I wasn't the only guy out there wearing a kilt for more than just big events such as his wedding. I think that helped me make the kilt "mine" instead of feeling like a borrowed item, if that makes any sense. Also, I'm the only kiltie for at least 100 miles in any direction, so it really helped to know that I am isolated but not alone.

Above all though, it showed me how to deal with the public while kilted. It's always good to be able to answer the intelligent questions with good information, the usual less than intelligent(or downright rude) questions with diplomacy and tact, and of course, how to wear it with pride. Even when dressed very casually I conduct myself in a manner that reflects well on the tradition and heritage it represents.

Overall, I'd say that without this forum I'd probably be completely lost. Or at least more lost than I normally am!

[Geoff Withnell]

Since you asked: Horsehair sporrans, spats, feather bonnets and long plaids label the wearer a wannabe piper/drummer. It's a bit like wearing medals/rank badges you haven't earned. Dirks are for killing people. Wish I got invited to a few more white tie funtions so I could justify the cost of a montrose jacket and jabot. Tartan waistcoats and ties are a good way of demonstrating your heritage/affiliation when you have to wear trousers;They should never be worn with the kilt. In a day or evening formal setting dress according to tradition ( not history! ). In a casual setting almost anything goes except for baseball caps, which should be reserved for your inevitable audience with Satan should you transgress. It is of course your human right to dress as tastelessly as you wish. Now, who will bite?

I would respectfully disagree with you on the long plaid. I have recently started wearing one fairly frequently, and find them a useful garment. They provide a bit of additional warmth when needed, and are easier than a jacket to carry when you don't need the warmth right now, or are wandering around indoors, say in a shopping mall.

Geoff Withnell

[Bill aka Mole]

A newbie's answer: (I've only been wearing since August 2010)

***How would you define your taste in kilt attire? ***
At this time it is mostly modern, perhaps a bit dressy. This winter had me in sweaters a majority of the time with a tee shirt underneath. The SWK Heavy kept the waist and below plenty warm. During the fall I was wearing SK PV kilts and was feeling darn proud when I received my first one... right until I saw the photos. Ick! Tenney runners and kilts definately are not made for one another.

***What is/are your main influence(s)? Have they changed over time?***
I would say that my current influence is to have an outfit that my long suffering wife will tolerate! Example: I wanted to kilt on both our wedding anniversary and Valentines Day evening outings BUT since I did not have a proper jacket, I was strongly advised that I'd be going solo on these occassions to our only 4-star resturant if I went kilted. So, I had to wear the suit. Colors are another thing that I defer to her as she can tell what looks better on me than I can.

***How has Xmarks contributed to how you approach the kilt?***
XMarks first allowed me to show SWMBO* that a kilt was more than a Scot's choice in clothing. Now, there was a bit of give and take on this matter BUT it did allow me to get her into a mini-kilt at this years Charleston games. I volunteer as a Firefighter and a kilt will not work well under our protective clothing. So, while I'm in town and on call, I wear those other things that I can tuck into my socks. Normally, I kilt when I want to be a bit better dressed than a set of cargos and whatever shirt I happen to figure is clean enough to wear to a fire or car wreck. It also has given me some other answers to the question that my honest manner of answering would likely be too coarse for the fairer sex.

*SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.

[OC Richard]

I've been reflecting on how my sartorial kilt-sense has grown and changed since I discovered Xmarks.
Me too!

What is/are your main influence(s)? Have they changed over time?
When I first started kiltwearing in the 1970s I was living in a place cut off from any direct contact with Highland Dress, so it was catch as catch can as far as aquiring information went.

I had a Scottish Shopper catalogue. It had photos of various Evening and Day jackets and sporrans and cool sterling kilt pins and such. I was able to see how the various modes of Highland Dress were put together.

I had loads of military books and I learned all about the dress of the Highland regiments. I went to militaria shows and saw many examples in person.

I saw album covers of all the great pipers wearing lovely tweed Argyll jackets etc.

I got and read every book I could find on Highland Dress including classics like Old Irish and Highland Dress and ditto books about tartans such as Scotland's Forged Tartans etc.

Then I spent many years in the modern civilian pipe band world and got to know about the evolution in pipe band styles.

Then a few years ago I got The Highlanders of Scotland, an amazingly detailed window on the Highland Dress of the 1860s. It almost completely changed my understanding of the topic.

Most recently I've been collecting a vast number of vintage photographs of people wearing Highland Dress, and several vintage Highland Dress catalogues. Each new photo and catalogue has something to add to my knowlege.


How has Xmarks contributed to how you approach the kilt?

Xmarks' influence has been tremendous. It has shed light on things I had seen for years but never thought about or knew the names of etc. Breek Socks! Tattersall shirts! No black during the day! Don't match colours! All sorts of things.

So how did I dress at the Queen Mary Games yesterday? Why a Lovat tweed jacket, patterned breek socks, a tattersall shirt, and so forth!

[Father Bill]

What a great set of questions, and a great thread!

Oddly enough, while much of what happens on XMarks is the pursuit of historical accuracy, fashions do come and go, even in terms of how to interpret history, "traditionality" and in the application of something traditional. I have had a fascination, love, and admiration for all things Scottish since I was about ten years old (and that's half a century ago, folks) and things have changed since then.

More than that, there are new and up-to-date ways to apply that traditional, historical garment which fit in today's cultural milieu differently than the way they would have been interpreted in 1960 - even in terms of what is/ was "correct" (whatever that is) and in terms of what is/ was seen as "historically correct." That's sort of an odd thought. I guess in a strange way though, history does change, or at least our view of what is/ was historically accurate, or even what is an appropriate interpretation of historical accuracy.

What XMarks has done for me is to both update me and inform me, so in an odd way, my taste and style have moved both forward and backward in time. Add to that a certain amount of confidence based on the kind and supportive manner of even the critics here, and I am comfortable that when I break a rule, I know at least THAT I am doing so, WHY I am doing so, and that I am doing so... because I darned well want to.

Examples: I sometimes wear a white clerical shirt and full collar with a black clerical vest with my kilt - historically surely inaccurate, but it has an uncanny visual sense of historicity. I'm willing to wear a much greater variety of shirts, sweaters, etc. My favourite sghian is actually very contemporary, but also very simple, so it has a look of elegance despite inaccuracy. And yes, I know that my fly plaid is probably not entirely recommended, but I darned well like it, and I know that's fine because it's okay to an extent to be and do what you want to do. It fits into my 1960 image of what I wanted it all to look like together. Oh, and I've given up my kilt pin because of the good advice that it would likely lead to damage at some time.

Thanks folks, for your encouragement and for making the pond a little less deep and scary to jump into for the first time 'round.

[CMcG]

Blimey... I'd hang on to her.

So what you are actually telling us is... "Darling? I have to wear my kilt tonight. Hayelp?"

Don't worry about it, my Mrs keeps me straight too and she's Turkish but with excellent taste. It's the refined taste that counts if you're not following the absolutely tradtional directive.

If you see pictures of me dressed immaculately, it's my wife's influence. If you see pictures of me looking like a lemon, it's me.

I think we are in the same boat

Since you asked: Horsehair sporrans, spats, feather bonnets and long plaids label the wearer a wannabe piper/drummer. It's a bit like wearing medals/rank badges you haven't earned. Dirks are for killing people. Wish I got invited to a few more white tie funtions so I could justify the cost of a montrose jacket and jabot. Tartan waistcoats and ties are a good way of demonstrating your heritage/affiliation when you have to wear trousers;They should never be worn with the kilt. In a day or evening formal setting dress according to tradition ( not history! ). In a casual setting almost anything goes except for baseball caps, which should be reserved for your inevitable audience with Satan should you transgress. It is of course your human right to dress as tastelessly as you wish. Now, who will bite?

I'll bite.

Would you play nice and be a bit more self-reflexive? You have expressed a good many opinions but not bothered to present how you have formed them.

You say to dress according to tradition but not to wear a tartan waistcoat with the kilt; I was under the impression that it was perfectly traditional, though not too common. Same goes for horsehair sporrans. This I have gathered from older photos and opinions expressed by some expert Xmarkers.

And in your circle of acquaintances, are people often getting killed by dirks?

I would certainly agree that wearing medals or badges that one has not earned is disrespectful. That's just common sense.