Kilt to prom on Glee tonight in prime time!

[Ruanaidh]

Last week Time Magazine named Chris Colfer (who plays Kurt on Glee) as one of the 100 most influential people of 2011. http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...066418,00.html

[Bugbear]

Would it have been better if the kissing bully had worn a kilt?

[kc8ufv]

Would it have been better if the kissing bully had worn a kilt?

Karofski wouldn't. He's too insecure about himself.

[saxandpipes]

I think it's a little of both, but more of the case of the character and the potential for further connotation of the uneducated who think the kilt is a skirt, and is itself cross-dressing, effeminate, etc.

Nobody is making or has made any judgment whatsoever on the validity of homosexuality as a lifestyle, and it has been clearly demonstrated that this forum won't entertain such arguments.
However, if one is to meaningfully discuss the kilt as portrayed in the media, then one must discuss HOW it is portrayed. This has taken us to a realm very close to the border of what is considered "appropriate" by the forum. I think everyone has strived and succeeded to handle the matter maturely and without guile. Strong opinions will abound of course, so let them--as long as they are pertinent to the discussion. It has been educational to say the least on how people have reacted both positively and negatively.

I am not so sure that people have really kept their opinions and judgements quietly to themselves... People seem ever so ready to defend a piece of clothing... but what about the people that are ridiculed, slandered and bashed on a regular basis because they are gay? I realise that this is a kilt forum, so, we are here to discuss, and perhaps if necessary (I don't really think it is!) defend the kilt. But there is a BIGGER issue present here.

Upon reading many of the comments posted here, I feel that many hold the opinion that gay/effeminate/sartorially adventurous (as Kurt from Glee most certainly is) people should be somehow discouraged from wearing the kilt.

One time (less than a month ago), after performing with my pipeband, I was returning through the city, after some sort of town festival thing (in the Netherlands) and some stupid red-neck (in a group of course) uttered "homo!" under his breath as I passed. Now, I was wearing my band uniform... Argyll jacket waistcoat, tie, obviously carrying a set of pipes, and I didn't know what offended me more- the fact he called me a homo, insulting my Scottish heritage, or the fact that he (and by the same token, I) considered "homo" an insult. I was furious, it ruined what was otherwise a great day, and left me with a distinctly bitter taste from my mouth to my stomach. I hadn't felt this way in a very long time, and I have to say that it brought back all kinds of terrible memories.

Kids are committing suicide over this issue, it's bigger than whether a culture can take itself seriously or not. I'm quite sure (although I don't have any statistics) that no Scotsman has ever committed suicide because he was ashamed of his heritage-

quote: Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers, according to the Massachusetts 2006 Youth Risk Survey. A 2009 study, "Family Rejection as a Predictor of Negative Health Outcomes" led by Dr. Caitlin Ryan and conducted as part of the Family Acceptance Project at San Francisco State University, shows that adolescence who were rejected by their families for being LGBT were 8.4 times more likely to report having attempted suicide. And for every completed suicide by a young person, it is estimated that 100 to 200 attempts are made (2003 Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance Survey).

Seriously people, can we really not stop the hate!?

Some quotes:

Nighthawk: “I just wish it would have been on a character who was not normally regarded as effeminate.”

“Glee... a gay kid... wearing a kilt pleated all the way around like a skirt…”

“I repeat- Joy... So now, given the fact that this character makes it a habit of wearing women's clothing, it will reinforce the American attitude that the kilt is nothing more special than a woman's skirt. Huzzah...”

Biblemonkey: “Wouldn't it have been great if one of the STRAIGHT characters had worn it…”

Tobus: “It's that they took a very flamboyantly effeminate character who, by all reports, regularly dresses in womens' clothing, and put him in a man's garment…”

“…their introduction to the kilt was a gay effeminate cross-dresser who wore it with leggings and knee-high boots…”

Elliottrohan68: “…I agree with the others posts that seeing as this character wears womens clothing often then this is simply looked at as another skirt…”

Zardoz: “I'm not that jazzed about what seems to be the most stereotypically fem gay character on it wearing a kilt.”

[TurboKittie]

I can only speak for myself here. I'm sorry you found our words to be filled with hate or bigotry, but I stand behind mine. Which incidentally, they most certainly did not hold the intent you seemed to place on them.

I have watched every episode the show Glee and have faithfully since it first aired. I do not have any issues with homosexual people. None. Zero. If I did, not only would I not be a "Gleek", I would not have offered to officiate the wedding of my friends or likely even been friends with them in the first place. I am more than a bit upset that you would make these kind of accusations.

However, I also have a son, still in high school who enjoys being kilted at school. He has enough issues without his peers associating a kilt with a gay character. I was expressing my hopes that, despite other appearances, his peers are smarter than that. Even though for most, it is likely this is first time they've seen a kilt worn on medium like television or the movies. These are kids are too young to have seen Braveheart and the one's who make comments well, it's unlikely they've seen rom-coms like Made Of Honor.

I am sorry you got a horrible bigoted and hateful comment while kilted. But that doesn't mean our words were the same.

[McClef]

This forum is in danger of degenerating.

I would remind contributors of the following rules:

Rule #2
– Posts by ‘Trolls’, posts known as ‘Feeding the Troll', any ‘Flaming’, direct attack against another member, or inciting a Vendetta, are serious disruptions of pleasant discussion and cannot be tolerated.

Rule #4
- Intolerance for our fellow human beings, of any kind, is inexcusable behavior in today’s world.

Rule #9
– This forum is not the place for the discussion of cross-dressing.

Many of us have not seen the Glee programmes to begin with and have no idea about the affect these are having upon perceptions etc.

But it appears to create varying degrees of discomfort, however carefully expressed and things are being read into what has been said.

It looks like a period for cooling off is needed so I am closing this thread whilst the Moderators discuss the situation.

[McClef]

Following Moderator discussion this thread has been returned to the open forum and has been reopened.

But the above warnings still apply so please keep all contributions polite and bear in mind the rules before pressing the "submit" button.

Thanks.

[Zardoz]

You know something else I'm not too jazzed about? Being slandered.
I, along with others are accused of being homophobic in a post on this forum. Saxandpipes quotes one line from my earlier post out of context to support his agenda.

Anyone who knows me or reads my posts on this forum knows I am in no way anti-gay! I recently posted photos from a huge invitation only Mardi Gras ball where my wife and I are some of the few straight attendees. Hell, as a ULC minister, I presided over a same sex handfasting a couple weeks ago!

I do not like having my name and an out of context quote being painted with someone's broad brush of bigotry in a post that remains on the forum for members and lurkers to see.

[saxandpipes]

I am not slandering anyone. I am pointing out the dangers of our words, which even with the best intentions, can be (indeed, taken out of context), misconstrued, or simply hurtful.

I will say again what I said during the deliberation process:

I stand by by post. The comments are hateful.

Anyone who has a problem with MY words is simply not getting the point. That words are powerful, and (even with the "best intentions") can cause a lot of damage. They all fail to see what kind of effect reading this forum could have on a young gay kid who might be interested in wearing the kilt, and joining what is otherwise a fantastic community here.

Perhaps, now that the forum is reopened people can take the opportunity to clarify their thoughts, rewrite, apologise for any misunderstanding, or simply keep quiet.

Just because you have gay friends and can say what your want to around them, doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful about what you say, when people from outside have the opportunity to listen.

[Bugbear]

You people have failed to offend me.

Nothing said in this thread about gay people comes close to or compares in any degree to what I here regularly from my neighbors and most of my family, sometimes even my friends.

A few minor things said bother me only because they faintly remind me of the hyper-masculine bully garbage that went on in school when and where I grew up. This is probably not what anyone intended in their posts, so I let it go. I probably don't view that issue relating to the kilt from the same prospective as some of you all, and don't quite understand the big deal about the show from your point of view, either.

Guess it's really not my problem...