Can I wear my wife's family too?

[Danaidh]

I'm an American with geneology documentation that includes Dunbar, Hastings, and even to King David of Scotland. I spent months trying to figure out which clan I could approach to offically belong to, which tartan then should I choose, etc. It was all too much and I discovered I didn't need any of it. That there's so many great tartan choices, I could've and did just pick one I liked. I guess as an American I can get away with that, but my point is: us Americans owe so much to the Scots that it's okay to wear almost any tartan. To me, it's all about the kilt itself. It's not like I'm able to recognize every clan by their tartan. Now, if they wore patches on their back like some motorcycle clubs do, I might learn to recognize them.

[tripleblessed]

'latch on to a lot of romantic-- if that's the word-- misconceptions....... I have this to say: Grow Up!"

I, too, have noticed a lot of romantic misconceptions over the years. You'll find this hard to believe, but I actually have known people so naive as to believe that the ability to quote chapter and verse of the "official" version of any war means they actually know what really happened. Facts may be available, but that's frequently a different thing than what happened. My gg- grandfather,who died at James Island in the "Late Unpleasantness", was the grandson of a Revolutionary War veteran who was the 6th generation in North America. I think I might have valid insight into whether or not there is discussion and strong feeling on that most UN-civil war mentioned. Fuss is made, just not with anyone who arrived in the last 125 years. That's pointless.

I, too, had relatives on both sides at Drummossie, though direct ancestors is unlikely, and certainly not proven. I will only say about that day that I respect all who stand up for what they believe. I find it exceeding sad that both sides on that field were there because they believed they had the right/duty to decide for other human individuals how they should be allowed to feel, to believe, to dress. To that situation , I return to the quote from a hero of mine on a forum I visit.


"But stop all this stuff, okay?

'Cause it really makes you look foolish.

MoR
(whose ancestor survived at Drumossie Moor, and whose Godfather's ancestor led Pearson's Horse at the same battle)"

Next, someone will be trying to convince me that Columbus discovered America, or that a Sinclair was the first European to visit same.

[Burly Brute]

I agree with Jock 100%-- it seems to me a matter of trying to be more Scottish than the Scots. Now that I live in America I find the same sort of thing here in the South-- families that were here during the Civil War have not forgotten what happened, but neither do they fuss over it. Unfortunately the same can not always be said about those who have only been here for a generation-- or less.

In North America most "avid" Scots are people who have only just discovered their heritage; few have the long standing traditions of Sandy, or one or two others on this Forum, whereby they grew up in their heritage. As a result they join "Clan McAvid" and latch on to a lot of romantic-- if that's the word-- misconceptions about Scotland, especially when it comes to clan feuds or the Jacobite Rebellion.

So, to all you "McAvids" out there, I have this to say: Grow Up! If you want to be upset at a Campbell, fine-- be upset if Mr. Campbell's dog craps on your lawn, not over something you "think" happened 300 years ago! The same with the Jacobite Rebellion and the "circle" of McAdvids that get stuck on this like flies on fly paper: Get over it. Your guy lost. You wanna blame some body, blame Bonnie Prince Charlie and the French. But stop all this clan feud stuff, okay?

'Cause it really makes you look foolish.

MoR
(whose ancestor survived at Drumossie Moor, and whose Godfather's ancestor led Pearson's Horse at the same battle)

But then who would fund all the societies that spring up all over the place?
I think some of the history needs to be romanticized, otherwise it would be really boring for the majority of those involved. I personally love sitting down and reading the books that I can get a hold of, but some like to just throw on a piece of fabric and down some brew. There really is a place, I believe, for both.

Don’t get me wrong, I know what you mean MoR. However, with all due respect, I think in some cases we might be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Hopefully this makes sense, just my two cents. (I’m a poet and didn’t know it)
-BB

[xman]

Well now listen, I like to take a poke at the Campbells now and then. Really, who doesn't. It's all in jest however. I let them take a poke right back and we share a laugh and a drink more often than not. That's all that's really going on. The rest is just talking about history.

Sláinte E'en ye Campbells.

[Morris at Heathfield]

The only Campbell to be involved was a drunken old man who was chosen to lead the English troops as a scapegoat. At the age of 60 he had only reached the rank of Captain.

The massacre was carried out by the 1st and 2nd companies of the Earl of Argyll's Regiment of Foot, raised in 1689. The regiment was the first regular regiment of Highlanders in the British army. A roll call for the 2nd company, taken only a few months before the massacre, can be seen on Wikipedia, but unfortunately no source is given for it. If the roll call can be trusted, however, of 66 soldiers 9 bore the Campbell surname: Glenlyon, a corporal, and seven privates. The junior officers mostly bore Lowland surnames, while the rest of the men bore Highland surnames. At any rate, it is known that the regiment was raised from the men of Argyll.

I don't know what motives led most of the men to enlist, but Glenlyon's motives are well known: financial difficulties brought on by his alcoholism, gambling, unwise management of his money, and the depredations of the men of Glengarry and Glencoe on his estate in 1689. Nevertheless, I see no reason to suspect revenge as one of Glenlyon's motives for conducting the massacre. All of the men were fairly new soldiers—at least, of the regular army—and were acting under orders from King William, received the day before the massacre. I tend to see the massacre as a sort of trial run—one that served as a very negative example—in an uneasy transition of Highlanders from clan warriors to soldiers in regular regiments of the British Army. In light of that, I find it interesting to compare the military careers of Glenlyon's Jacobite son and Hanoverian grandson.

To get back on topic, I think it's a nice gesture to wear your wife's family's tartan. That said, from my reading of Scottish history, maybe it's not such a good idea. Just because you and your wife may get along doesn't mean that her family doesn't want to kill you (and you them).

[Tobus]

As the clan system applies to the kilt, the custom has evolved whereby a gentleman only wears the tartan associated with his surname as this is an outward manifestation of the intangible bond of loyalty that exists between a clansman and his chief. Now, if you have no ties to another clan, then custom would dictate that you formally become a member of your wife's clan, and then wear that clan tartan as your own, handing it down to your children as your family's "clan tartan".

If a man formally becomes a member of his wife's clan, does he take the clan name? Or keep his own?

And what about the children? If they wear their mother's clan tartan, do they also take that surname? Otherwise, they'd be wearing a tartan that's not associated with their surname (i.e. the clan-less surname of their father).

[Detroitpete]

I agree with Jock 100%-- it seems to me a matter of trying to be more Scottish than the Scots. Now that I live in America I find the same sort of thing here in the South-- families that were here during the Civil War have not forgotten what happened, but neither do they fuss over it. Unfortunately the same can not always be said about those who have only been here for a generation-- or less.

In North America most "avid" Scots are people who have only just discovered their heritage; few have the long standing traditions of Sandy, or one or two others on this Forum, whereby they grew up in their heritage. As a result they join "Clan McAvid" and latch on to a lot of romantic-- if that's the word-- misconceptions about Scotland, especially when it comes to clan feuds or the Jacobite Rebellion.

So, to all you "McAvids" out there, I have this to say: Grow Up! If you want to be upset at a Campbell, fine-- be upset if Mr. Campbell's dog craps on your lawn, not over something you "think" happened 300 years ago! The same with the Jacobite Rebellion and the "circle" of McAdvids that get stuck on this like flies on fly paper: Get over it. Your guy lost. You wanna blame some body, blame Bonnie Prince Charlie and the French. But stop all this clan feud stuff, okay?

'Cause it really makes you look foolish.

MoR
(whose ancestor survived at Drumossie Moor, and whose Godfather's ancestor led Pearson's Horse at the same battle)

Hmmmm....Perhaps the issues regarding the MacLarens and MacGregors with respect to "Rob Roy's" grave have been settled then?

If one is of Scottish ancestry then how could they possibly be considered as attempting to be "more Scottish than the Scots"? Aren't they just as Scot as the 'Scots'?

Perhaps these questions are beyond my ability to understand them--I'm absolutely OK with that. With the number of things one can worry or be concerned about today, I'm not sure these types of issues crop up all that too often for me.

Just my 2 bits--and NOT at all suggesting I'm right or that others should do as I do:

I have an 'equal' ancestral link to both MacLaren and Bruce. Should I flip a coin? Nope--I volunteer for the Clan MacLaren Association of North America. BUT that doesn't keep me from wearing Bruce tartan when I can find it--and I'm in the process of getting a Bruce tartan kilt. I also made and registered a tartan in honor of my Grandfather and our surname. Could be considered an appropriate display of affection--or complete blasphemy depending on whom one asks. I just don't ask.

Yes, I like many others am a bit of a Celtic mutt. So be it. I could choose to wear District tartans and even a few Irish tartans as well. My mother was born in Sicily--you know, they have an Italian tartan too? I served in the US Navy--and boy, I feel like I'm showing my reginmental colors when wearing the Edzell tartan--especially since I served as a CT, with our connection to Edzell.

Once my paternal forefathers came here from Balquidder, they dug their roots into the soil of West Virgina for generations. I LOVE that tartan. Near the town that came up around my ancestor's farms--sits a school named for my G-G-G Grandfather. Other things are named for my family in that area such as a creek and a cemetery. Perhaps some would say-"Aye, buy ya don't live in WV, it would be improper for you to wear that tartan". I would probably get a kilt made from that beautiful tartan and wear it as I lay flowers at the monument outside of that small town that stands 8 feet tall and recounts 6 generations of my family.

This is going a LONG way around the bend to say, I'll wear what I wear, sir...with my own reasons and most likely not give a fig what another might see as "proper". Perhaps that makes be a dull-witted Yank. So be it.

My wife has very close ties to Adams. Ya' know--that is a lovely tartan as well. Perhaps I should show her that I'm just as proud of her family as I am my own?

Yep--I must just be foolish. (I actually think if they want to end all the bikkering over Rob, they should dig the lad up and do the DNA test)

[Jock Scot]

If one is of Scottish ancestry then how could they possibly be considered as attempting to be "more Scottish than the Scots"? Aren't they just as Scot as the 'Scots'?

I am very sorry, but, no they are not. They are American/Australian/French/Russian/Canadian/English/whatevers with Scots roots.

I say this with the greatest of respect to all and mean absolutely no offence whatsoever.

[Detroitpete]

I am very sorry, but, no they are not. They are American/Australian/French/Russian/Canadian/English/whatevers with Scots roots.

I say this with the greatest of respect to all and mean absolutely no offence whatsoever.

No offense taken whatesoever, sir. Good to have a place to exchange thoughts and opinions. I hope my posting above is seen in the same manner--no offense meant.

[Jock Scot]

No offense taken whatesoever, sir. Good to have a place to exchange thoughts and opinions. I hope my posting above is seen in the same manner--no offense meant.

No offence taken whatsoever, my dear fellow, I can assure you.