Sgian Dubh and the Church

[ThistleDown]

The sgian dubh is a part of highland attire, but in truth it is the least important part of it (in my opinion).

It isn't all that noticeable whether present or not

I almost wish I could agree with you Jamie, but I can't. Others here have referred to their fathers' pocket knives and that would be my father, too. For me -- and my grandfather and those before him -- the sgian dubh acts as that little utility knife used to cut string, remove thorns, slice cheese, carve a twig, gut a fish and on and on. Not, I must admit, the delicate plastic accessory of today, but a very sharp, hardy tool somewhat akin to the folding Buck in America, I suppose. And not, I would think, as needed today in an urban environment any more than that smaller one formerly used to shape quills.

But hardly worth an issue of who-will-win. I would gently back down and let the control lady have her way.

Ah, but the point: for me the absolutely least essential bit of Highland attire is that silly ornament called a kilt pin. Doesn't pin one thing to another, isn't heavy enough to weigh anything down and catches on every shrub by which I pass within a foot! I wear it, but it does annoy me.

[SteveB]

I wear my kilt to church every Sunday and spend most of my time in a classroom teaching first and second scholars about the Worlds religions. I have never been without the sgian dubh. It lives in my hose. The edge is functional, it cuts open cardboard boxes, it slits open envelopes, makes short work of string, and slices up the apples we share. Whether the sgian dubh has a history of having been a weapon or not, it is perceived here as part of the tradition of high hose, garter ties, sporran, kilt pin, or cap badge. All of the gents who wear the kilt to church wear the sgain dubh. In this I am not alone as generally there are at least ten kilted men in service.

[Panache]

With all due respect gents

I have on my key chain a Leatherman Micra

It has a small sharp blade for cutting stuff

Better yet it has a small pair of extremely sharp scissors!

Better yet it has a small Phillips screwdriver bit that opens up a myriad of my kid's toys.

I like knives and swords

a lot

Those X Markers that have seen the adornments on my library walls know this.

However I will pit my Leatherman Micra against any sgian dubh for anything outside combat.

I like to wear the sgian dubh, but I am not bound to always wear it.

When it is right I will

When it is not right I won't

The claim that one has to carry one in all situations for want of a sharp edge isn't really that forceful an argument.

There are certainly options that might not upset other folks.

Cheers

Jamie

(Somewhere the much esteemed Rab Gordon has just put me on his "naughty" list! )

[BoldHighlander]

I like to wear the sgian dubh, but I am not bound to always wear it.

When it is right I will

When it is not right I won't

And in the end what it all boils down to is that each of us must decide for ourselves what is right for each of our own situations....traditions or not.

Only I know what is acceptable/correct for my situation, as each of you only know what is for yours.
All else is just beating a dead horse

[ThistleDown]

With all due respect gents

I have on my key chain a Leatherman Micra

It has a small sharp blade for cutting stuff

Better yet it has a small pair of extremely sharp scissors!

Better yet it has a small Phillips screwdriver bit that opens up a myriad of my kid's toys.

I like knives and swords

a lot

Those X Markers that have seen the adornments on my library walls know this.

However I will pit my Leatherman Micra against any sgian dubh for anything outside combat.

I like to wear the sgian dubh, but I am not bound to always wear it.

When it is right I will

When it is not right I won't

The claim that one has to carry one in all situations for want of a sharp edge isn't really that forceful an argument.

There are certainly options that might not upset other folks.

Cheers

Jamie

(Somewhere the much esteemed Rab Gordon has just put me on his "naughty" list! )

With much respect, Jamie, I don't hear anybody else in this thread saying that they have a love affair with edged weapons like swords and knives. What they seem to be saying is that a Leatherman, a Swiss Army knife, a pen knife and a sgian dubh are NOT weapons and should not carry the same stigmatism, whether carried in a pocket or tucked into the top of hose or strung on a keychair, as such things as swords which have, as their sole purpose, the harming of humans.

[Phil]

I hope any of my posts here are taken as my purely personal opinions and what I am really trying to say is that in a place of worship I would forego wearing a sgian dhubh, especially if it caused anyone else in that place distress. I think that is the main reason why I don't wear one in the first place from thinking ahead if it might be unacceptable. At the recent Gathering here in Edinburgh I deliberately left it at home for much the same reason. It is not something I would ever use for any practical purpose, just a decorative accessory really, and is not an essential component of the dress.
As a matter of fact I have never carried a knife of any sort since I gave up smoking a pipe when I had a sort of tool that included a blade to scrape out the bowl. I really have no need for a knife other than in the kitchen.

[davedove]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out why anyone would NEED a knife during services. I'll admit I'm not a bit church-goer, but when I have gone, you go in, sit down, listen to the preacher, read from the bible, sing from the hymnal, and that's about it; no cutting required.

Yes, I usually have a pocket knife with me (I'm a farm boy), but I've never needed it in that situation. If the sgian dubh bothered someone during church, I would leave it in the car. If there were some activity at the church after the services, I could always retrieve the blade if I needed it.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

With all due respect gents

I have on my key chain a Leatherman Micra

It has a small sharp blade for cutting stuff

Better yet it has a small pair of extremely sharp scissors!

Better yet it has a small Phillips screwdriver bit that opens up a myriad of my kid's toys.

I like knives and swords

a lot

Those X Markers that have seen the adornments on my library walls know this.

However I will pit my Leatherman Micra against any sgian dubh for anything outside combat.

I like to wear the sgian dubh, but I am not bound to always wear it.

When it is right I will

When it is not right I won't

The claim that one has to carry one in all situations for want of a sharp edge isn't really that forceful an argument.

There are certainly options that might not upset other folks.

Cheers

Jamie

(Somewhere the much esteemed Rab Gordon has just put me on his "naughty" list! )

Jamie--

Can you skin a deer with your Leatherman Micra?

[Panache]

Jamie--

Can you skin a deer with your Leatherman Micra?

No, but I imagine that the need to do so amidst a church service is a relatively rare occurrence.

OK MoR you did call me a rightly so on my statement. I'll admit that for the original purpose of the sgian dubh my Leatherman micra would not be a good substitute.

However I find it a very handy tool (kilted and not) for all the things that tend to pop up everyday. It is also something that i can bring with me to my children's school without causing concern.

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[St. Amish]

You could use the same arguement for wearing a kilt in church. I'm sure a man in a kilt will make some people uncomfortable in church. Should you then go change into trousers so as not to make any parishoners uncofortable?

That's not what I meant. If people are uncomfortable by the kilt itself, whatever. There is an argument to be made, however that a sgian dubh is slightly sharper and more formidable as a weapon than a kilt, while being less formidable than the gun used by that New Life Church security guard who emptied her magazine into an intruder in the church parking lot here:

"Thou shall not murder — and if attempted in a big house of worship, the likely response would be gunfire.

Many large churches have taken up arms.

New Life Church member and volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam, who emptied her gun at a black-coated, armed intruder who had just shot four people — two fatally — in the church parking lot, is no oddity.

Like New Life, which has a volunteer plainclothes security force of about a dozen, other area megachurches also employ security to respond to trouble in places where as many as 7,000 might be on campus at any time.

Although smaller churches typically don't have armed guards or security plans because they feel less need and have fewer resources, security staffs are commonplace among the country's 1,200 megachurches, where membership is in the thousands.

"There seems to be a little bit of incredulity or some short of shock on the part of the media and public about this level of security," said Gary Schneeberger, spokesman for worldwide media ministry Focus on the Family, a Colorado Springs campus with 1,200 employees and a quarter-million visitors a year.

-Denver Post, 12-12-2007"

So, a church can have weapons on its' grounds to protect from crazies with weapons? Then why can't you wear a sgian? Because they don't know if you're one of the crazies. In my mind, my sense courtesy outweighs my right to wear my sgian.