Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[Chas]

Coat of Arms: Argent between in base a bear rampant and in chief between two crosses moline a raven beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules

Crest: A gryphon passant sable, holding a sword proper

Motto: Ego planto mea fortuna (I make my own fate.)

Hi John,

A bit of a design observation. I have often heard it said that unless it is part of a group (as the three lions in pale, from a previous post) one beast on a shield is more than enough. In your case, I think that you get away with it as the fess effectively brakes the shield neatly into two compartments.

My concern is with the crest. Yet another, but different beast. Making a total of three different animals. It is of course, your choice and decision, but I tend to favour the 'beasts on the shield - objects on the crest - or vice versa' formula.

How about a pair of crossed swords in saltire behind a cross moline? You could even go for something quite clever and have the cross voided so that the crossed swords can de seen through it.

If you are going to do this right, you will only do it once, but the decision will last (or should last ) your lifetime. Far better to take the extra time and consider all possibilities.

Just a thought.

Regards

Chas

[WVHighlander]

Chas,

OK you have taxed my right side brain. I am trying to picture your crest suggestion and cannot....help?

[Chas]

Chas,

OK you have taxed my right side brain. I am trying to picture your crest suggestion and cannot....help?

John, it's midnight here and I was just off to bed. I will put some thing together for tomorrow.

Regards

Chas

[WVHighlander]

Cheers Chas,

I just looked at my phone and saw that. Talk to you tomorrow.

[Cygnus]

I agree with Chas in that WVHighlander's arms seem a bit "beasty".

As for getting the bear to be more visible, why not replace the fesse with the more narrow bar? That would give you more room both in the chief and the base for the other charges.

Here's a crude rendition of Chas' suggested crest based on two graphics pilfered from the internet:

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

MOR you are awesome! Thanks a whole bunch!!!! I want the livery to stay gold and black so I will leave that the way it is. I will add the part about the claws and teeth too.
Please tell me what you think.


ARMS: Or a bear rampant Sable fangs bared, armed, langued, and pizzled Gules, brandishing a basket-hilted sword proper on a chief Gules three Maltese crosses Argent all within a bordure counter-changed in chief.

CREST: [On a wreath Or and Sable] Upon a grassy mound a bear statant erect supporting a Lochaber axe with his forepaws, his right hind foot resting upon a boulder all proper.

Harold, thanks for the kind words.

I think the arms and crest work very well. I should point out, however, that the use of a bordure as a sub-ordinary charge (not a mark of cadency) is highly unusual, especially in Scottish heraldry; indeed I am of the opinion that it is the present practice of the Lord Lyon to only grant bordures as a mark of cadency.

Certainly the arms are every bit as striking without the bordure, and the same visual effect could be achieved by using a tressure counter changed which would allow future generations to be represented by bordures as marks of cadency. This change of charges is entirely your call.

As I have said elsewhere, at the end of the day you are the only person who has to be happy with these arms.

[davidlpope]

MOR you are awesome! Thanks a whole bunch!!!! I want the livery to stay gold and black so I will leave that the way it is. I will add the part about the claws and teeth too.
Please tell me what you think.


ARMS: Or a bear rampant Sable fangs bared, armed, langued, and pizzled Gules, brandishing a basket-hilted sword proper on a chief Gules three Maltese crosses Argent all within a bordure counter-changed in chief.

CREST: [On a wreath of Or and Sable] Upon a grassy mound a bear statant erect supporting a Lochaber axe with his forepaws, his right hind foot resting upon a boulder all proper.

Just a suggestion:

What about:

Or a bear rampant Sable brandishing a basket-hilted sword Proper and on a chief Azure three Maltese crosses Or

It's a bit simpler, but still retains enough in common with the chiefly MacMillan arms to show an obvious connection...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

So with those helpful lessons on language I would be looking at something like this:

Argent between in base a bear SABLE rampant, fangs bared, armed and langued gules and in chief between two crosses moline a raven displayed, beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

Is that about right??

Pretty much, if you remember to specify the colour of the bear as sable (otherwise it may end up as some other colour).

I would prefer to blazon the arms as:

argent a fess gules in chief between two crosses moline a raven wings expanded sable and in base a bear statant erect of the last fangs bared armed and langued gules.

Traditionally arms are blazoned in the following order:

(1) the field; (2) the primary charge; (3) any subordinate charges; followed by (4) subordinate charges placed in or on a chief; (5) subordinate charges placed in base.

In the instance of your arms the primary charge is the fess, which takes up 1/3 of the field. Those charges in chief and in base take up less space and are therefor subordinate charges.

While "fangs bared" may sound like heraldic tautology when followed by "armed and langued", it is used in this instance to clearly remind the painter that (1) the bear is not muzzled, and that (2) the teeth are to be shown lest he take it upon himself to draw a rather docile bear with its tongue sticking out.

Also, I'm not sure I like your bear's attitude.

While it is possible to blazon nearly any beast as "rampant" when displayed on the shield this can lead to all sorts of recognition difficulties. Case in point being Mr. Cannon's "rampant bear" that looked to me like a lion rampant debased (ie: with it's tail hacked off). When dealing with real animals (as opposed to mythical beasts) I think it is better to portray them in natural attitudes.

Likewise I think changing the attitude of your raven from displayed to "wings expanded" will not only provide better balance to the chief, but will also make it look less like a rather undernourished eagle.

But, as I have stated previously, ultimately you are the only person who has to be satisfied with these arms.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Just a suggestion:

What about:

Or a bear rampant Sable brandishing a basket-hilted sword Proper and on a chief Azure three Maltese crosses Or

It's a bit simpler, but still retains enough in common with the chiefly MacMillan arms to show an obvious connection...

I think this is a reasonable suggestion, but to truly "tie in" to the chiefly arms of MacMillan either the crosses or the bear (or both) would have to be changed to reflect a sense of the continuity of clanship and community:

(1) or a bear rampant sable etc. [and] on a chief gules three mullets argent

(2) or a lion rampant sable etc. [and] on a chief gules three Maltese crosses argent.

A closer connection to the chiefly arms would, as you have pointed out, be achieved if the chief were azure, and doubly so if the argent Maltese crosses were replaced by three mullets of the same tincture.

[Celtic Rogue]

Here is my family's crest.