A question.

**Herr Doktor** · 25th March 13, 04:53 PM

Yes I have a brief question if I may.

And yes I have carefully read and reread all the rules of this forum.

I was hoping to view the thread "Brass 17th-18th Century Style Dirk" in this the sub-forum 'Historically Made Kilts and How To Wear Them' and see that it has been censored (if that is the correct description) because of this debate around "Rule 11 violation".

To my great disappointment it has been made unavailable for my viewing.

My question is this: Why is it permissible for items of the same nature to be showcased in the sub forum 'DIY Showroom' and yet not in this ones? Yes I read the contentious debate in the Jacobite thread and it is of my understanding that the thread must have reference to the kilt included within the posting. Yes that is very good as this is all about the kilt, yes?
But there are many treads over in the DIY kategory that do not konnect to the kilt anywhere within it's thread. One is left to inferr
that is to be used in conjunctions with the kilt in some way, yes?

An example thread from that sub forum which must fall into that kategory is this: "Sgian Dubh #3 in progress"

And if I can imagine that to go through that sub forum there would be many more of it's nature, yes?

So in summation, are all threads of this nature to be subjected to removale no matter where they fall, or just into this forum "Historically Made Kilts and How To Wear Them"?

I abhor the censorship of history or anything for that matter. The responsible adult is mature to pass their own judgement, yes?

Enough, I only would like to look at this "Brass 17th-18th Century Style Dirk".

Herr Doktor.

**Father Bill** · 25th March 13, 05:37 PM

Mein Freund,

All is nicht so klar oder leicht. The trouble as you must realize is that while rules may exist, we require and trust mature individuals to interpret them. The reasons for this particular rule are as stated I'm sure, but of course there will be times when we disagree with the application of them.

I note the ongoing and strenuous efforts of our moderators to review, revise, clarify and explain the rules of the forum. Do I agree with every decision? Well, no, but I deeply respect the thought that goes into them and for that reason I'm willing to accept the decisions made. This is the nature of the intepretation process I identify. At national levels, the parallel is simple: we have legislation. We also have courts to interpret and apply it. Are errors made? Well, due to a lack of robots and computers we need to employ human beings to apply the process.

In this particular case there are many factors to be considered, possibly even beyond "Is it kilt related." We need to consider context, the type of weapon involved, its level of historical significance, and probably other issues as well. We seem to have lost one respected member of the group over this decision. That is sad, however, I prefer those occasional unfortunate losses to the possibility of losing the entire forum should it descend to online warfare.

In summary, while I may disagree with some decisions (and I would wager that some of the moderators disagree with some of them too) I staunchly uphold their right to make them, the need for them to make them, and the individual decisions made.

Every blessing,

Bill+

**Friday** · 25th March 13, 05:37 PM

see above post.

**Richrail** · 25th March 13, 05:49 PM

*** Father Bill.

**TheOfficialBren** · 25th March 13, 05:59 PM

+ 1, padre!

**MacMillans son** · 25th March 13, 06:25 PM

And as we learned in Steve's post last week, if no one complained about the weapon being displayed discussed etc. then the moderators are inclined not to get involved.

**Steve Ashton** · 25th March 13, 11:46 PM

I will attempt to answer your question Herr Doktor, to the best of my ability right now.

Yes, we know that the rules are not perfect. They are always subject to change as our membership and their wishes change.

The thread you refer to was not 'edited'. Other things were going on in the thread and it was reported to the staff as a possible rule violation. The thread needed to be removed from the forum and is now in our "Holding Cell".

Your question is valid. Was the rule able to be enforced consistently? No, I'm sorry the rule, as written, does not cover every case.

We have been discussing this issue among the staff and have asked for input from some of our members. It is our members who tell us where to set the limits of behavior should be, and it is the membership that will finally decide where the limits will be on this issue.

I thank you for bringing this up as we do need to know what the members think. Your post was well thought out and well worded. It does help a lot.

**Dale Seago** · 26th March 13, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Herr Doktor

My question is this: Why is it permissible for items of the same nature to be showcased in the sub forum 'DIY Showroom' and yet not in this ones? Yes I read the contentious debate in the Jacobite thread and it is of my understanding that the thread must have reference to the kilt included within the posting. Yes that is very good as this is all about the kilt, yes?
But there are many treads over in the DIY kategory that do not konnect to the kilt anywhere within it's thread. One is left to inferr
that is to be used in conjunctions with the kilt in some way, yes?

An example thread from that sub forum which must fall into that kategory is this: "Sgian Dubh #3 in progress"

And if I can imagine that to go through that sub forum there would be many more of it's nature, yes?

Excellent responses from both Father Bill and Steve. Just guessing here, but perhaps threads dealing with the sgian dubh tend not to draw negative attention, even without any specific mention of the kilt, simply because the sgian dubh is not (by design) a weapon but a utility tool and sartorial accessory that is primarily (perhaps even exclusively) associated with the wearing of the kilt. . .?

**Jock Scot** · 26th March 13, 10:11 AM

Original post deleted.------------ Best to let behind the scenes discussions come to a conclusion.

**Dale Seago** · 26th March 13, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

. . .Best to let behind the scenes discussions come to a conclusion.

Well, I dunno, Jock. Hopefully approaches to Rule 11 discussed here can provide further points for the Mods to ponder as they consider how best to phrase and apply/enforce the rule.

If it's going to be a matter of restricting threads solely to some contextual reference to kilts, then should that idea be expanded beyond weapons to prohibit (for example) discussions of Scottish history/cultures/languages prior to the mid-16th century, since neither the kilt nor its predecessor the feileadh mor had come into common use yet?