Underkilt

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Dread,

Well said as always. And as I sit here kilted at work for the first time, I shudder to think of the response if I had worn one of these items and tried to convince ANYONE that it is a kilt.

RJI

[Dreadbelly]

Dread,

Well said as always. And as I sit here kilted at work for the first time, I shudder to think of the response if I had worn one of these items and tried to convince ANYONE that it is a kilt.

RJI

I would dare say it is because garments like these are being offered as kilts is the reason why so many people meet with difficulty trying to wear them in to the workplace. Or see kilt wearing as cross dressing. Or as an act of perversion. Slapping the name "kilt" on garments like these blur the lines and degrade and belittle a noble means of dress.

That's just my own bloody opinion.

But I have the nagging ongoing suspicion that I am right.

Edit. Mods, if I crossed the line, and this is to be deleted, I understand, but I simply must defend what I know in my heart to be right and true. I did not mean this as a personal attack on anybody in particular. I am just stating the blantant obvious truth. I couldn't just let this slide.

[Bob C]

I can see the practicality of the slip this guy is selling. They''ll play hockey in Hell before I wear one, though.

And Dread's right - those pictures are NOT of kilts. Two of them are mini-skirts.

[Woodsheal]

I would dare say it is because garments like these are being offered as kilts is the reason why so many people meet with difficulty trying to wear them in to the workplace. Or see kilt wearing as cross dressing. Or as an act of perversion. Slapping the name "kilt" on garments like these blur the lines and degrade and belittle a noble means of dress.

You are right on, Brother Dread...!

[James]

This all touches on a far deeper problem-now the various garments called 'kilts' might not appear in any way like a kilt to my eyes or others who frequent this board.

What is a kilt-and lets not have the chat about apron and pleats?

I, and I know I'm not alone in this, do not of necessity see some of the garments called kilts as being what we recognise as a kilt. Possibly as a consequence of style, or because of the way it is being worn.

A major oops that.

Having said that it is not my buisiness or intention to be critical of what others might choose to wear-their right and decision.

However is it possible that the word 'kilt' is in fact unless prefixed by the word 'traditional' becoming a synonym for a male skirt?

So before we shoot someone down for following the same path as say Utilikilt: it might be good idea to sit back and think about what is going on.

My guess being that there is a wearer lead ground swell for some form of 'kilt' like garment to be accepted as normal men's wear. However the word kilt has been adopted to defend the masculinity of the wearers and enable them to face down both their own hesitation, and the possible objections of others.

James

[Bob C]

What is a kilt-and lets not have the chat about apron and pleats?

That's a bit like saying, "What is beer - and let's not have the liquid and intoxicating chat."

My guess being that there is a wearer lead ground swell for some form of 'kilt' like garment to be accepted as normal men's wear. However the word kilt has been adopted to defend the masculinity of the wearers and enable them to face down both their own hesitation, and the possible objections of others.

James

My guess is that the movement is not wearer-led at all. It's manufacturer-led, and the word Kilt is being co-opted to take advantage of the acceptance that real kilts have gained.

If they called their skirts "skirts" few would even consider them.

[Rigged]

It seems to me that manufacturers of modern kilts make an effort to resemble a kilt in it's basic form -- length, pleats, apron, wrapping from left to right. It's those basics that make a kilt a kilt whether plain or tartan -- with or without pockets.

I do like the styles J'Dez produces and some day many men will be wearing them -- maybe even me.

A kilt might be a type of skirt, but not all skirts are kilts.

This shows another reason to make a clear distinction between kilts and skirts -- even those made for men.

We've had the discussion before of coming up with a generic name for man-skirts. Most people on this list have rejected "MUG" (Male Unbifurcated Garment), but no one has come up with anything better.

If you want to make such a garment for men that isn't a kilt and you don't want to call it a skirt due to the gendered implication of the word, what do you call it?

Until we come up with a better term, "kilt" is all we've got.

[davedove]

My guess is that the movement is not wearer-led at all. It's manufacturer-led, and the word Kilt is being co-opted to take advantage of the acceptance that real kilts have gained.

If they called their skirts "skirts" few would even consider them.

That's probably a reasonable assertion Bob. Marketers are not stupid people. They know the general resistance to men in "skirts", so they use the word kilt to make it more acceptable, and therefore more marketable.

[Dreadbelly]

While I might wear a "skirt" like a sarong or a Macabi, I would never wear those listed above. For one thing, my twig and berries would hang right out of the bottom of them.

I am comfortable enough in my masculinity to think about wearing a skirt. Provided it was the right sort.

I am however, conservative in nature, and will not compromise my modesty. Accidental exposure is one thing... Those mini skirts on a man would just be obcene. Even if I were wearing undergarments, there is no way I could keep all my junk stuffed away under the hemline.

[cavscout]

This garment could be useful to some, but to a more traditional kilt wearer it would have to be a color more inline with tartan or solid kilts. White is just not practical for the masculine appearnace. A UK is much more inline with a traditional kilt than the feminine garments on that site but not as traditional as a tank. So we have a spectrum.

Whether the definition of the kilt is defended consistently or not it must be defended when needed to maintain it's identity. To draw a parallel, the confederate battle flag is simply the flag carried by confederate armies to identify themselves and consisted of symbols representing the states included in the confederacy. The flag in and of itself is not a racist element but groups of people who were racist took that flag and soiled it with their horrible message. Today when someone see's that flag the immediate reaction is to assume it's racist because the historical, and traditional signifigance of it was not defended by those who treasure it. If we value the kilt as a masculine garment we need to defend it and object to the feminization of it by anyone who trys to corrupt it. Otherwise we have no one to blame for the skirt jokes except ourselves and the tradition and history of the kilt will be lost and the future will be written by those who
do not treasure it.