feeling special is not OK

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Been off-line since posting to this thread earlier this afternoon. I can only say that all of your responses leave me speechless, grateful, and somewhat teary-eyed (and I am not that easy to reach like that, my wife referred to me as "the rock" for the whole family when we lost my brother-in-law suddenly earlier this year to liver disease). Not that I think that I am unemotional, I just tend to try to work things through for myself and don't tend to share them. This works well most of the time when I am dealing with issues that don't involve my wife, as she is my support network, but when it is an issue that affects or deals with her, I am left with no one to lean on if I need it.

Macg, those we love can (and do) hurt us the most. The ones who can push our buttons the quickest and the easiest are those who know us the best, and after almost 20 years together, we certainly know each other well!

It looks like your wife is reacting out of fear, & she may not be aware of all the trouble you went to make sure kilting at the office would be OK. You might show her the thread where you delineated to us all that you did to get clearance. OTOH, she may fear that while it is OK for you to wear the kilt to work, those who could promote you may not be so keen on it (the kilt that is) & therefore not so keen on promoting you.

You two will have to have a good talk; & tho' it's too late for this one, next time you feel you must walk away because there is no time for a lengthy discussion, let her know that you do want to talk it out with her but you want to do it when you both have the time the issue deserves, or that she deserves, whichever is fitting.

Sherry, you are right on! This has been a very difficult year that has seen the sudden death of my wife's sister's husband due to liver disease, the loss of my job due to a merger, and a cross country move (Tampa to Chicago) to start a new job. She is very concerned due to my being in a new company and how wearing the kilt might affect my raises, promotions, etc., which is where the discussion this morning began. This morning I was certainly to blame, and said so to her, in not agreeing to discuss the issue later when we had more time instead of just not responding. I saw it as a case of not getting into a discussion that would lead to an argument and long conversation, but I agree that to her it seemed like I did not care for what she thought, which is not true.

I also sincerely appreciate your input from another women's perspective.

RJI

[Sherry]

Sherry, you are right on! This has been a very difficult year that has seen the sudden death of my wife's sister's husband due to liver disease, the loss of my job due to a merger, and a cross country move (Tampa to Chicago) to start a new job. She is very concerned due to my being in a new company and how wearing the kilt might affect my raises, promotions, etc., which is where the discussion this morning began. This morning I was certainly to blame, and said so to her, in not agreeing to discuss the issue later when we had more time instead of just not responding. I saw it as a case of not getting into a discussion that would lead to an argument and long conversation, but I agree that to her it seemed like I did not care for what she thought, which is not true.

I also sincerely appreciate your input from another women's perspective.

RJI

Ah, well, I knew I was right. All kidding aside tho', I knew she'd be really hacked off after I read that you had walked away without saying a word. She would only interpret that in a negative way. (No you don't get the benefit of the doubt on that one!)

I'm glad you are working it out together. Working it out as partners, as opposed to some power struggle, will pay big dividends for your marriage & your family.

Sherry
Married 25 years to the same, fine man--no, really!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Ah, well, I knew I was right. All kidding aside tho', I knew she'd be really hacked off after I read that you had walked away without saying a word. She would only interpret that in a negative way. (No you don't get the benefit of the doubt on that one!)

I'm glad you are working it out together. Working it out as partners, as opposed to some power struggle, will pay big dividends for your marriage & your family.

Sherry
Married 25 years to the same, fine man--no, really!

Sherry, that just proves that women and men view the world differently. I think that if the same incident occurred between two men, neither would have taken offense and been meeting for a drink after work.

We do try to work it out, because my wife's parents have a very traditional relationship based on the woman stays home and tends to the family while the husband works, and they stay together no matter what. On my side, the divorces and re-marriages require a play book as some of the players show up in multiple marriages, and I don't mean the ones I am related to! This gives us both unique perspectives. I don't want to follow my family's path and my wife is unwilling to settle for what her Mom had in a marriage. I think it makes us both really committed to making it work, but open to changes in our relationship and also willing to evaluate where we are on a regular basis.

The fact that we will have been together for 20 years this December, 17 married is a good sign. There have been many times, especiallt before we got kids 3 years ago and more so since then, that we could have called it quits.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Nothing is worth your marriage. Its give and take.
Hey if you want to wear the kilt to work do so. But maybe mark it down
on a calender for several times a month and agree with your wife these
are the days.

Remember the old saying- "drop a frog in boiling water and it will jump out, put it in cool water and gently heat it up and it will stay"

Take it slow, you've already worn you kilt to work and its not even Oct. 31,
mission done.

dave

Dave, I quite agree! The part I am struggling with right now, that I did not include in my post to Alan, is that I am pushing the envelope at a large financial institution. Today was only the 3rd day kilted, first day was last friday (a special "casual day") to celebrate the end of our annual charity campaign, Monday was at our training center for a developer's conference, and then today back in my office. My view, very subject to being wrong, is that if I go through the end of this week kilted, I will have gotten everybody comortable with my wearing the kilt and it will become just part of my wardrobe. I may wear the kilt or I may wear pants, people won't care or take notice, in contrast to currently where people still wonder why I wear a kilt. Some are colleagues and ask good naturedly why I am wearing a kilt that day, to which I respond "Why are you wearing pants today!" and point them to kiltdyay.com. Others are still getting used to it and need some more time. For example, today as I walked to my truck, somebody (a guy) drove up to me in the parking lot, rolled down the passenger window, and said "is that the new daily uniform?". I smiled and said "Why not?". He looked at me and then said "That takes some balls!". While I was glad for his support (?), that is not why I am wearing a kilt. It is because I have determined that it is very likely part of my heritage (which is why I decided to wear it initially) and is very comfortable, which is why I continue to wear it!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Cyndi and Dave,

I agree wholeheartedly, 100%, with all my heart, and any other superlative or dedication sentiment that you can name, that I would not, will not, and have never endangered my family's financial well being for any reason, whether a current interest for me (as Alan suggested), or a hot stock tip, or a great real estate purchase! I am very conservative when it comes to providing for my family and our retirement. Too many of the relatives on my side of the family did not follow that approach and will be working hard labor jobs until they die. I want to enjoy my life (my goal was to retire at 40, but I might have to wait an additional 5-7 more years).

[Dreadbelly]

Have you ever thought about turning the tables on your wife? Ask if this pleating to the sett (or to the stripe, whatever) makes your butt look fat.

Fair play. Let her find out how it feels.

Or in the middle of a kilt conversation, derail her. Bluntly ask during a tirade, "Darling, do you still find me attractive?" "Do you still love me?" "Do we still have that old spark, or are we just room mates who scratch each other's itch and helps pay each other's bills?" Put her on the defensive. Force her to step back for a moment and re-evaluate something. Not in any mean nasty sort of way.

I have found that if you derail a conversation with a woman enough, like with the examples I listed, they stop saying so much. Call it a conditioned response. My wife knows if she puts me on the spot, that I will put her on the spot. Keeps us on even footing and it is what makes this marriage work. She no longer puts me on the spot unless she absolutely has to, and vice versa. A lot more respect for each other's personal quirks and personal space.

If every time she has to approach you about something causes her to open a can of worms, she will back down just to keep the worm can closed.

Unless of course, you have a woman that likes to open worm cans, and then I can't help you.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Have you ever thought about turning the tables on your wife? Ask if this pleating to the sett (or to the stripe, whatever) makes your butt look fat.

Fair play. Let her find out how it feels.

Or in the middle of a kilt conversation, derail her. Bluntly ask during a tirade, "Darling, do you still find me attractive?" "Do you still love me?" "Do we still have that old spark, or are we just room mates who scratch each other's itch and helps pay each other's bills?" Put her on the defensive. Force her to step back for a moment and re-evaluate something. Not in any mean nasty sort of way.

I have found that if you derail a conversation with a woman enough, like with the examples I listed, they stop saying so much. Call it a conditioned response. My wife knows if she puts me on the spot, that I will put her on the spot. Keeps us on even footing and it is what makes this marriage work. She no longer puts me on the spot unless she absolutely has to, and vice versa. A lot more respect for each other's personal quirks and personal space.

If every time she has to approach you about something causes her to open a can of worms, she will back down just to keep the worm can closed.

Unless of course, you have a woman that likes to open worm cans, and then I can't help you.

Dread, LOL! And not just because of what you suggested, but because I did something similar to this when she came home tonight. I have decided to make some kilts (been reading Barb's book) and purchased 2 different materials this weekend (more to come on that in another thread!). Anyway, I was debating whether the one material should hemmed or the selvedge left as is (think the white line on Graham's latest acquisition). I decided to take it to my resident expert (who said she would not have an answer when I first asked her if she could give me some fashion advice on my kilt making), and she said that I definitely needed a hem on the material in question and was not unhappy to giv me the information. Maybe this is the approach I need to take, let her decide which tartan and the shirt and accessories for each day!

[Thistle Stop]

OK, apparently *someone*...wife won't tell me who, said " that's not a good reason for wearing a kilt. "Feeling special" should come from INSIDE a person, not from other people." ... What do you all think about that "feeling special should come from inside" comment vis a vis kilt-wearing?

If you didn't already "feel special on the inside", you wouldn't have the guts to wear a kilt! Most kilt-wearers have plenty of confidence and feel good about themselves. Those that don't fit that description are usually trying for shock-effect and/or looking to pick a fight with the next boyo that gets in their face... but that's not a typical X-Marker, and it's certainly not our Alan H.

(And, for the record, when I say "boyo" I don't necessarily mean a Welshman! Could as well be a Jock, Mick, Yank, Pommy... I advocate equal-opportunity casting of cultural epithets.)

Besides, to say that "feeling special" is not a good reason to wear a kilt is a load of c-r-r-rap, in my opinion. A kilt is special -- more than most other garments, it signifies pride in one's heritage (well, at least if one is of Scottish extraction), and that's a fine quality. The kilt symbolises all that is Scotland, and that certainly makes it "special". So why shouldn't you enjoy "feeling special" when you wear it? Our clothing (or lack of it) inevitably says something about us, and as far as I'm concerned, the kilt says nothing but good things about you.

Don't be taken in by that sophomoric, PC psychobabble. Of course you "feel special" in your kilt, as well you should. You look pretty special in it too. Your "insides" are your own damn business!

[Thistle Stop]

Now that I've gone through and read all the other posts, I want to say that I agree that it can be a noble thing, and often the right thing, to sacrifice one's personal desires for the sake of someone else's priorities -- especially a spouse.

Yet... I find sadness in the O. Henry story, "The Gift of the Magi" (hopefully everyone's familiar with it). I know it's supposed to be heartwarming, but my feeling is that the couple could have been just as happy with no special presents, just knowing -- because they know, not because any action was required to prove it -- that they love each other enough to sacrifice anything for their beloved. And then they'd still have those special possessions -- her long hair, his gold watch -- that gave them such pleasure, instead of the useless watch chain and hair ornament. In my view, it was just foolish of each of them to give up their greatest treasures as they did, however generous the impulse.

I hope I never read on XMarks, some cold day in January, that one of our kilt-wearing guys sold all his kilts to buy his beloved a week's course at an inner enlightenment seminar (for both of them, of course), whilst she went out and hocked all her self-help books to get him a Prince Charlie coatee and all the trimmings so they could attend the Burn's Nicht Supper in style! (However, if it should happen, don't forget I can rent you a kilt! ;))

I prefer to celebrate who we are, and encourage my husband to do and be whatever makes him happy, rather than to give up some part of myself, or something that makes me happy, to satisfy some perceived expectation or demand of his and thus "prove" my love for him. I want him to think the same way. I don't think it's selfish.

The economic issue is a serious thing, though, and if a man is endangering his family's security by wearing a kilt to work, then he shouldn't do it. There are plenty of other occasions where the kilt can be worn, though, and he ought to be able to do so, with no sense of guilt about it. His wife should support his kilt-wearing simply because it gives him pleasure and causes no harm to anyone.

[davedove]

The economic issue is a serious thing, though, and if a man is endangering his family's security by wearing a kilt to work, then he shouldn't do it.

That is very true, and if his wearing of kilts is truly endangering his financial security, he has a serious problem. I know everyone on this board supports kilt wearing, but we all have to recognize that's it's just a piece of clothing, and not worth ruining our life.

I know, I know, I can here the lynch mob outside now!