Are Campbells STILL not welcome in some parts of Scotland??

[macwilkin]

Tono,

When you say "the Campbells at Culloden", are you referring to Glencoe? There were Campbells at Culloden on both sides (mostly in the Argyll militia on the Government side, but there were some Campbells who fought for the Jacobites as well), but one thing should be pointed out -- neither the defeat of the Jacobites at Culloden nor the massacre of Glencoe were ordered and executed by Campbells exclusively. For the former, it was a British Army force, led by the Duke (Butcher) Cumberland, and for the latter, while there was a Campbell in command at Glencoe, Robert Campbell of Glenlyon, his force was made up of soldiers, not Campbell clansmen per se.

Regards,

Todd

[MACKAY]

..... nor the massacre of Glencoe were ordered and executed by Campbells exclusively. For the former, it was a British Army force, led by the Duke (Butcher) Cumberland, and for the latter, while there was a Campbell in command at Glencoe, Robert Campbell of Glenlyon, his force was made up of soldiers, not Campbell clansmen per se.

Regards,

Todd

Thanks again Todd for clearing up what has become an accepted myth, that the "CLAN" Campbell was responsible for Glencoe. The responsible party was and always will be the man who ordered the deed and put his signature on the warrant.... and he was sitting on his throne in London. Robert Campbell was a pawn in a much bigger game.

Erin ... if surnames had any real impact on how you are accepted, or not accepted, in Scotland (which they do not), then you better reconsider your choice to use "Stuart". You see, the Clans were split pretty evenly between the loyalist and the Jacobites in '45, you would have to assume that you would run into just as many people who would not appreciate you being a "Stuart", as much as you would find those who welcomed you as a "Stuart".

IMHO, Just like the USA, it is my experience that hard cash money will be welcomed and gladly taken at any pub, restaurant or establishment that is open to the public, regardless of your name. Besides, have you ever known a Scot to turn down a potential for profit :-)

Have a great trip!!!!

Brian Mackay

[macwilkin]

Thanks again Todd for clearing up what has become an accepted myth, that the "CLAN" Campbell was responsible for Glencoe. The responsible party was and always will be the man who ordered the deed and put his signature on the warrant.... and he was sitting on his throne in London. Robert Campbell was a pawn in a much bigger game.

Aye, Brian. If anyone deserves the blame, it is the Earl of Stair, John Dalrymple, Secretary of State for Scotland.

T.

[MACKAY]

Aye, Brian. If anyone deserves the blame, it is the Earl of Stair, John Dalrymple, Secretary of State for Scotland.

T.

For those who do not know about Sir Dalrymple's role ....

In 1691 Macdonald of Glencoe, was the last Clan Chief to comply with the terms of a proclamation to swear loyalty to King William's government. The difficulty in getting the chiefs to come to terms seems to have irritated Sir John Dalrymple so much that he eagerly desired that some, especially the Macdonalds, might be made an example of by putting into execution the penalty attached to the non-fulfilment of the terms of the proclamation, which of course was death. Preparatory to putting the death warrant in execution, a government regiment, under the command of Captain Campbell of Glenlyon, was ordered to proceed to Glencoe... The rest is well documented history.

Brian

[iheartbagpipes]

Thanks for all the replies! and no worries I am proud to be a Campbell...wouldn't hide my lastname unless I couldn't get a pint in a pub

Cheers

[Valencian Kilted]

I think that after reading all these pointing outs, you will all agree with me than we, (specially those like me, foreigners that have only access to Scottish history from a more distant point of view) have to be ready to open our minds to new opinions and visions of history, don't u think?,... and going to this concrete matter, after reading this,... our friend could say without shame that he is a Campbell in any case,... he should just remember which branch was fighting on each side, and state that he thinks his branch was on it! ;) depending of what he could find in front! lol

Thanks for letting me know more about Alba, guys, and even recognising that I still have my prejudices, listening at different points of view helps me to feel better and more wise!

... By the way, and just as an extra info,... I heard some times that there were catholic clans on the Jacobites side, and often those were identified with the Frasers, that is true? I thought before that from the prosecution of catholic church in scotland until the arrival of irish inmigrants on the 19th century, no catholicism was over there, so it was a nice surprise for me,... even more when they were on my (obviously) favorite side of the field!

¡Salud!

T O N O

[macwilkin]

... By the way, and just as an extra info,... I heard some times that there were catholic clans on the Jacobites side, and often those were identified with the Frasers, that is true? I thought before that from the prosecution of catholic church in scotland until the arrival of irish inmigrants on the 19th century, no catholicism was over there, so it was a nice surprise for me,... even more when they were on my (obviously) favorite side of the field!

The Jacobite army was made of up of largely Roman Catholics, Episcopalians and some Presbyterians.

Regards,

Todd

[Mike1]

Aye, Brian. If anyone deserves the blame, it is the Earl of Stair, John Dalrymple, Secretary of State for Scotland.

Good on you, Todd. A myth that needs to be debunked, time and again.

Everyone, repeat after me -

The Master of Stair and William of Orange are the people responsible for the incident at Glencoe.

I must be getting soft in my old age. I'm defending the Cam**ells?? ;)

[Cawdorian]

Although my last name is not Campbell, I am descended from the Campbells on both sides of my family. I am also a descendant of the Lamonts and the McGregors, as you may be aware the Lamonts and the McGregors both has some major clashes with the Campbells, the Duke of Argyll lost his head because of his treatment of the Lamonts.

We Campbell descendants have been getting along quite well with the rest of the world for several hundred years now. I have been doing my part, I even married a descendant of Clan Donald.

[Mike1]

We joke and tease, but that probably needs to be identified as joking. The Campbell family was not responsible for what took place at Glencoe and for people to cling to those old misconceptions is bad enough, let alone try to carry a grudge over them.

The fact that so many Lamonts died at the hands of the Campbells is not a pleasant thing, but neither were the Clearances. And, as I've mentioned elsewhere, had some of those events not taken place, where would I be? Each one of us is a result of all the experiences of our ancestors, both good and bad.