Which kilt for St. Pat's?

[Bob C]

Bob, who was the seller on your kilt? Was it EmeraldTartans by any chance?

The ebay ID was heritageofscotland-net. I checked their listings this morning and found no Irish Nationals.

Stillwater is clearing out some old "economy" kilts, VERY cheap on Ebay. I've never seen one, but they have not gotten good reviews here. For the $20 they're listed at, though, you might take a look. You could always use it for lounging around the house if it's not good enough to go out in.

Chances are, though, you could get away with it just fine in a pub on St. Patrick's Day. It's not exactly a tartan ball.

[michael steinrok]

KiltedCodeWarrior:

Get a better look at that kilt on eBay: Notice the unsightly seam near the fringe? For this reason alone I'd avoid this particular choice. It's also an obvious rip-off of tartan designer Polly Wittering's "Irish National" tartan (from House of Edgar). If you must have a kilt solely for St. Pat's and don't want to spend a lot of money, the "Ireland's National" from USA Kilts might be the best way to go. That's just one suggestion, but good luck with your decision.

It's not a ripoff as you put it so bluntly. The Stillwater Irish National is a licensed product by the house of edgar. That goes to show you , that it's a good idea to get the facts straight.

[bubba]

Stillwater licensed the Irish National from House of Edgar for use in nonwool fabrics.

[MacSimoin]

...it's a good idea to get the facts straight.

Mr. Steinrok,

Here are three facts you failed to grasp before your post:

1. The kilt that KiltedCodeWarrior linked to is not a Stillwater Kilt. It's sold by someone else, in a different country and is referred to in the eBay auction as the Heritage of Ireland tartan, a tartan The House of Edgar (HOE) has nothing to do with (to the best of my knowledge).

2. The kilt in question is so similar to the HOE's Irish National that here in the states it could warrant a copyright infringement lawsuit. That's why I called it a ripoff and I stand by my assessment.

3. FYI, when you see a TM next to a product, that doesn't necessarily refer to a product being licensed but rather that the item is trademarked. The Irish National tartan is trademarked by The House of Edgar, and putting TM next to a trademarked product (or, it's name) is the appropriate thing to do when selling such goods. Jerry may have licensed the tartan from HOE, and if he has, he's legally obligated to make it known that the tartan is a trademarked product.

Next time, please send me a PM if you feel the need to question anything I post. There was absolutely no need for your misinterpretations and they certainly aren't helping KiltedCodeWarrior make up his mind.

Hank or Moderators,

If you feel my response is unwarranted, then by all means delete it. But, I stand by my defense here and by my original post. All I was trying to do was help KiltedCodeWarrior.

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Michael,

I have to agree, you did not check the posts carefully. MacSimoin sums it up pretty well. Thanks, Mac.

[Bob C]

MacSimoin's labeling of something as a ripoff does not make it so. His attack on Mr. Steinrok and his use of bold text does not add to his credibility.

The bottom line for KCW is - do you like the kilt? If so, buy it. Don't let someone here tell you that you can't, and that you must buy a more expensive kilt from his preferred kiltmaker.

I don't care for the one on Ebay, because I think the fringe is too long and looks funny. I don't care for the "Ireland's National" (regardless of the kiltmaker) because the green is too dark. Those are MY biases. Unlike MacSimoin, I won't try to impose them on you.

[bubba]

Jerry may have licensed the tartan from HOE, and if he has, he's legally obligated to make it known that the tartan is a trademarked product.
.

Mac, Jerry makes it clear on his website that his Irish National is licensed from HoE. There are a few Irish National type tartans out there that are legit, unfortunately, as you alluded to, there are a passle of ripoffs as well. We do need to be careful on that score. The merchants that we find here on X-Marks I would trust completely to do the right thing but with Ebay caution is the name of the game.

[RockyR]

Here's the deal on Irish National Kilts...

In 1995 (or thereabouts) HOE registered the Irish tartans and County tartans. They TM'd them and were the ONLY PEOPLE who were allowed to make the tartans.

A few years later, Pakistani mills started making Irish National tartan in Acrylic and wool blends at a MUCH cheaper price than HOE was selling it for. What they were doing was (is) illegal. EVERYONE who sold the "Irish National Pkistani kilts" up to 2 or 3 months ago was breaking TM laws. HOE was sort of oblivious to it for a while or just chose not to persue any legal action. Recently, they started cracking down on the "imposters". Jerry from SW was the ONLY one to escape the wrath by entering into a liscensing agreement with HOE to be able to sell Irish National kilts in material OTHER than wool. ALL of the others are STILL doing something illegal. The other kilts you see that Look VERY SIMILAR to Irish National on Ebay ARE Irish National with a different name attached.

Jerry told me that in the coming months, the mills in Pakistan are going to be changing the thread count a LITTLE BIT off of Irish National and renaming the tartan to avoid HOE's legal wrath. He's the only one that's been authorized by Blair MacNaughton to continue selling Irish National "non wool" kilts.

There are OTHER Irish tartans (including a few Irish names... Murphy, Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, etc) and other companies that now MAKE County Crest tartans and one called Ireland's National. The County Crest tartans are completely DIFFERENT from HOE's offerings and are trademarked in their own right.

[MacSimoin]

Mac, Jerry makes it clear on his website that his Irish National is licensed from HoE. There are a few Irish National type tartans out there that are legit...but with Ebay caution is the name of the game.

Bubba,

I had a look at that information (it's nearly a disclaimer, but appropriate nonetheless) on Jerry's site this morning, and I was pleasantly surprised to read his statement "We have taken steps to ensure that counterfeit Irish National Tartan™ products will no longer be offered for sale in the US." I totally agree with using caution when buying such items on eBay.

Bob C,

No attack was intended against Mr. Steinrok but rather a clarification of my original post since it was obviously misinterpreted by Mr. Steinrok. Coincidentally, your own attack against me was completely uncalled for. That's my personal bias.

Rocky,

Well said. I do wish to point out that the Heritage of Ireland tartan, although in my opinion an obvious ripoff of the Irish National, does take steps to avoid copying HOE's Irish National by using a white stripe between the yellow/gold stripes, rather than a yellow and black stripes between a white like Polly Wittering's Irish National has.

[michael steinrok]

KiltedCodeWarrior:

Get a better look at that kilt on eBay: Notice the unsightly seam near the fringe? For this reason alone I'd avoid this particular choice. It's also an obvious rip-off of tartan designer Polly Wittering's "Irish National" tartan (from House of Edgar). If you must have a kilt solely for St. Pat's and don't want to spend a lot of money, the "Ireland's National" from USA Kilts might be the best way to go. That's just one suggestion, but good luck with your decision.

Somewhere a long the line I got sort of confused. My apologies . I have stillwater on the brain. Heritage is a kind of ripoff as a few lines were changed to avoid prosecution. Stillwater was n ever in question. I jumped in without looking. No hard feelings I hope.