Clan badges vs family crests??

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

A wee correction Todd the 'Chiefs Crest Badge' is in a plain circle (usually accompanied by three feathers) The Clans folk's Badge is the 'Chiefs Crest' in a 'Strap and Buckle' to show allegiance to that chief. Even his heir apparent and all other siblings have to wear the 'crest' in a 'Strap & Buckle'

By Scots Heraldic law and Custom only the Chief/Armiger can use/wear 'his crest' outwith a circle all others should display the crest in a 'Strap & Buckle'

By courtesy all un-married children of an armiger are permitted to display their father's arms undifferenced until they reach their majority. At that time they must either abandon their paternal arms, sue out a differenced version of those arms, or sue out new arms altogether.

The only entitlement the child of an amiger has is the right to apply for a differenced version of the paternal arms. The heraldic authority having jurisdiction in the matter then determines two things: first, what if any, claim the child has to those arms, and second, what, if any, differences should be applied to those arms. The heraldic authority then issues a legal document which (1) confirms that the child is lawfully entitled to some form of use of the paternal arms, and (2) grants the use of those differenced or undifferenced arms to the child.

As to the use of a clansman's badge, like it or not, there is no automatic "right" to wear or display the same. In Scotland the crest, motto, and buckle and strap devise are technically and legally the property of the chief. As such he has the right to control its use, and to say who may--or may not-- wear the badge of a clansman. It has nothing to do with your surname, and everything to do with the good humour of your chief.

[SFCRick]

thanks for the lesson

[Glen C]

I suppose some mention should be made of the clan "plant badges" at this point. Long before the standardized tartans and mass-produced "crest badges" the clans were using their plant badges. These plants were worn on the bonnet for identification purposes. My clan’s plant badge is the fern. I have a gold plated fern fond that I use as a kilt pin; it looks great and pays tribute to a now seldom used clan badge

[Jack Daw]

Yep. Some corporations, such as a clan association, can have a coat of arms designed and recognized by the Lord Lyon. But, what a lot of clanspeople think is THEIR coat is not; it's their chief's.

[macwilkin]

Yep. The coat of arms belongs to the chief, too. It's not the clan coat of arms. Although, some corporations, such as a clan association, can have a coat of arms designed and recognized by the Lord Lyon. But, what a lot of clanspeople think is THEIR coat is not; it's their chief's.

Now you're preaching to the choir, Jack...:mrgreen:

T.

[Sketraw]

Some feudal Barons also have a grant of a 'plant badge'....

Michael A Aquino, Baron of Rachane

You can see the plant badge granted here is 'a fern'

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

John, I think we all have to keep our fingers crossed re: the next Lyon... When I was in the Office of Arms in Dublin Romilly did all of my important clients-- he is without a doubt one of the top ten heraldic painters on the planet. When you get to that level it comes down to a matter of style; all of them are well beyond first rate.

Tudor Tiron really pulled out the stops! I've always had a weak spot for library paintings and hope you've given this pride of place in your home. (Mine's in the downstairs loo...)

I note your Constantinian decoration, something us Scots "piskies" aren't likely to obtain. Might I ask (without prejudice) which obedience?

[Sketraw]

Well I am 'CofS' Scott, I was one of two Scots Armigers (non RC) to receive the decoration from The Sacred Military Constantinian Order of St George(Spain not Castro). http://www.constantinianorder.org

There has only been about 12 non RC's awarded the order in the past 40 plus years so it was kind of special to get. It was thought the Royal Commission of Italy headed by the Duke Don Diego de Vargas Machuca and the grant was signed by the Infante of Spain.

The award is 'Knight Jure Sanguinis'

Anyway its kind of nice to have and was unexpected.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Cool. Another nugget of information for my chivalric files.

[sharpdressedscot]

So, you can't wear the clan badges or these so called "coat of arms"??

maybe I'm reading the text wrong ,but that's what I'm getting here.