A question on ethics...

[Valencian Kilted]

well... as many people said,... this is a free world, so,... do ur own movements, but if u want my own opinion,... i wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a saltire on my kilt (mainly for esthetical reasons) or even wearing another clan or district tartan except for mine or a "neutral" tartan pattern, as i do now with my black patterned one,...

Even wearing a Black Watch tartan seems to me as an intromission, as I'd be wearing the colours of a regiment without having some kind of "membership right" to do so... apart of some ideological controversia about the "governement tartan"

Maybe for some of u this is not at all a reasonable position, but,... well, as I said before this is a free world! so,... act as free as you can, guy!

¡Salud!

T O N O

[freddie]

Posted by James: I'm not really happy seeing someone wearing a tartan to which they do not have that genuine blood/regimental/band claim.
What about my situation. I was adopted and wear a tartan connected to my adoption family. I'm proud to wear this tartan, even though I'm not related by blood to the clan. I do however have a second kilt in the tartan of my blood line

[ScotsArmiger]

I've read over some of the posts and the majority are spot on. I am a Scot (born and raised) hence a Scot and a tartan down all lines of my family. Even then I would not dream of wearing anything other than my paternal family name, except if I was ever required to wear my mother's tartan.

If I came across someone wearing my tartan who was not of my name, kin and blood, I would certainly wonder why? If he was disgracing my nation's flag and admitted to being of English decent... Ahem... Aye right son, come ahead ya sassenach...

There are other possibilities outside of family and district tartans. Consider that there are commemorative tartans eg. a Scotland 2000 Commemorative Tartan - I wouldn't wear it myself but then it is probably intended for Scots whose families have never had a tartan and for foreigners who are not Scots at all. There are also several universal tartan's such as Scottish America or even the American Bicentennial Commemorative Tartan.

There's tartans that cover almost everything and these days even the screwball Da Vinci Code Tartan which should appeal to conspiracy nuts - I personally consider that one ridiculous, since it stinks of Hollywood commercialisation.

People do strange things in Tartan though, my cousin has a tartan of his own but prefered to wear the Glasgow Rangers Football Club tartan at his wedding.

Unless you can find an ancestor in your pile who was identifable as a Scot! I would urge you instead to wear a Commemorative or Universal tartan only.

[Moose McLennan]

... hence a Scot and a tartan down all lines of my family. Even then I would not dream of wearing anything other than my paternal family name, except if I was ever required to wear my mother's tartan....

In an ideal world, this would be the case. I agree with James and others of a traditional bent that its usage as an identifier can add to the interest of tartan.

For years I held off getting a kilt. An order for a kilt in my 'paternal family name' tartan would just have been too expensive (my 'mother's tartan' is often found in cheapo kilts but would not be my choice colourwise).

Eventually, my rationale in buying a used kilt was: If it fits and has a similar colour-scheme, just get one. I ended up with an ex-MOD kilt far better than anything I would ever have dared to buy new, and much better suited to what I wear it for. A kilt in my 'own' tartan will come soon enough I'm sure.

To anyone in a similar situation, the biggest mistake you can make getting a kilt is, well, not getting one at all.

M.

[ronstew]

if your ancestry is Protestant (not necessarily Presbyterian), and your family has lived in this country for several generations....

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

[longshadows]

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

Sorry, I'll edit my posting. I shold have remembered that. Thanks for calling to my attention.

MP

[davedove]

Even if you can't find any Scottish ancestors, there are some Irish and some Welsh family tartans.

If unable to find a tartan from the family tartans, look into the district tartans. You're in Hawaii right now and it has a state tartan. I believe you said you were from Indiana, they have a tartan. Do you have any German ancestors, use the German National tartan.

And there are many other tartans for states, countries, Scottish and Irish districts.

You have a wealth of tartans from which to choose, even if you feel the need for a connection to wear a certain tartan (as do I).

If all else fails, there are even fashion tartans which ANYONE can wear, because they don't represent anything. Stillwater Kilts Nightstalker tartan is an example.

[James]

I seem to have managed to get some to agree and some to disagree-the best way for an argument.

However I must pick up on a specific point-that is the suggestion of 'An American Tradition'.

Now that is fine in respect of some of the garments which have adopted the name of kilt-such as The Utilikilt-for they is an unique American garment, and certainly their tradition must be American/Global, and really has little if anything to do with Scotland.

However it is not possible to have it both ways-that is claiming a highland tradition as the basis for the kilt as we know it and so justifying the wearing of such a garment-whilst at the same time ignoring that tradition except when it suits one.

This leads back to the idea that tartans are not just pretty patterns, they have a meaning-be that meaning of Clan-a pattern reserved for the Chief , or maybe The Royal Family, and so on-maybe for an American Police Pipe Band or whatever. The last might be of recent origin, but albeit new-a tradition that I for one would respect, and a part of that respect would be to not wear that tartan, for to do so would be to masquarade under a false flag.

Coming full circle, if there is to be any validity to the kilt as we know it, we need to see it as more than just a sensible way to dress: rather it is something linking us to our heritage, a heritage of which we are, or should be proud. A heritage of which we cannot cherry pick the bits we like and ignore the bits we feel do not suit our wishes of the moment.

It is our choice, we either buy into the entire package as an entire package: or we throw it out of the window and lose any right to claim that wearing the kilt is anything other than a possibly eccentric, albeit sensible way of dressing.


James

[macwilkin]

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

Not to go religious, but the Jacobites were "multi-faith", including RCs, Episcopalians and even some Presbyterians. And, I think Longshadows was referring to the Ulster-Scots, who were overwhelmingly Protestant.

Cheers,

Todd

[ronstew]

...the Jacobites were "multi-faith", including RCs, Episcopalians and even some Presbyterians.

We'll get this right eventually!