Two new Irish tartans

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Jeff,

Nice tartans, I really like the color combination in the last one.

To answer the question about hunting tartans, yes it is a bit unusual to have a "hunting" version of the Fitzsimmons. All a hunting tartan is, in essense, is a tartan based in greens (usually), blues or browns. In other words, more earth-toned than the red based tartans.

Usually, when a clan has a hunting tartan, it is as an alternative to its more usual red based tartan. Examples would be the red Robertson vs. the hunting Robertson (a green & blue tartan), red Fraser vs. hunting Fraser (a brown tartan), red MacLaine vs. hunting MacLaine (a blue tartan). I could go on.

Some clan tartans are already blue/green based. For instance, the Campbell tartan. There is no "hunting" Campbell tartan, because, in essence, the ordinary Campbell tartan is a hunting tartan. (Note that this same tartan is used as a hunting tartan by two other clans, Grant and Munro, both of which have standard tartans that are red based). To use an example from my own family background, the Armstrong tartan is blue and green based, so there is no "hunting" Armstrong. Brad, your Henderson tartan is, essentially, a "hunting" tartan, so there would be no need for a different "Henderson hunting."

Since the Fitzsimmons tartan is based in greens and browns, it can already be considered a "hunting" tartan. In fact, if you were ever to design a "red Fitzsimmons" then the original one would most likely be referred to as the "hunting" tartan to distinguish it.

What I would do, instead of calling the new Fitzsimmons tartan "hunting" and potentially confusing the issue, is to identify it by it's color difference. This is done in several families with multiple tartans using different colors. For instance, Thompson red, Thompson blue (aka Dress Thompson), Thompson grey, Thompson brown, etc. Also Scott has a red tartan, a hunting tartan (which is green), and a brown tartan. The green one is called "hunting Scott" while the brown one is called "Scott brown," or "Brown Scott."

So why not call this one "Fitzsimmons brown" to difference it from the original?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

OK, looking back at the original post again, I wonder if the more brown appearance of the Fitzsimmons hunting tartan is not just a function of the computer-generated image being a bit muddy. I note when you compare it to the actual photo of the original Fitzsimmons tartan, you list all the same colors except for dark brown. So will this new Fitzsimmons tartan look essentially the same, then, except for one less color?

If that's the case, please ignore my suggestion to call it "Fitzsimmons brown" as that would seem a daft name for a tartan variant where the brown is removed! lol...

Still, I think calling it "hunting" would confuse the issue. So what would you call it? Sometimes tartans are referred to by distinguishing features that have been added (such as "red line MacNeil") but what about when a feature has been removed and a tartan actually simplified? Frankly, that doesn't usually happen.

I can think of a couple of cases off the bat. The St. Columba tartan was originally designed with 7 colors but that was reduced to 6 for commercial production. No name change was given. If you look them up in the ITI they are just called "St. Columba (one green)" and "St. Columba (two green)." Of course in general speech you just call both of them "St. Columba. When asked what tartan you are wearing, no one would say, "Oh, this is the St. Columba one green tartan!"

An older example is the MacAlpine tartan, which was originally woven with both blue and black, but later produced with black only. Both are just called "MacAlpine" and it's only when you are making comparison between the two that you have to come up with some way of distinguishing one from the other by referring to one as "with blue" or something.

All the same, it seems a bit silly to just call this new tartan Fitzsimmons without distinguishing it at all with a new name. I just don't think "hunting" is appropriate, though. Maybe there is some significant appellation from the family history that you could apply to it?

~M

[MacSimoin]

Matt,

Hello again and thank you for your input here---I value your expertise always.

I did realize that some people may find the name Fitzsimmons Hunting a bit peculiar since the Fitzsimmons tartan itself contains dark green as the field or background. However, in choosing the name I decided upon calling it such because the tartan colors would appear or be viewed as muted, subdued (as Bradley observed) or muddied (as you observed). Here's hoping they stay that way when I have a 6 yards sample of the tartan woven [soon].

Prior to completing the recording application[s], I emailed the name, colors and thread counts (of both tartans) along with the same images posted here to Brian Wilton. He checked them against the ITI and since all was well and he gave me the go-ahead, I took care of submitting both tartan recording applications earlier today.

I stand by them both.

Thanks again.

[macsim]

MacSimoin is quite a prolific designer of tartans. He's actually got more he's sent me over the last year or so. (And I never did anything more than offer an occasional opinion or a yea or nay, he's the tartan guru!) Guid oan ya mate!

[cessna152towser]

Looking good. Well done on the new tartans.

[MacSimoin]

Matt,

I’m not sure an explanation is warranted and since I’m unclear about your discontent for the name of this tartan, please allow me to respond:

First and foremost, your expertise in this field is evident and you are correct: I simply moved the colors of the tartan around and eliminated dark brown from the new design. In my opinion, moving olive green to the field and moving light brown to where olive green was (in the original) will decidedly alter the appearance of the new tartan. It was my intention to make this version more muted than the original (not everyone likes dark tartans) and I think I've succeeded. FYI, I had considered using Fitzsimmons Muted as the name but not only did I dislike the name I also realized it could cause confusion for weavers when selecting the appropriate dyes.

In response to Bradley's observation, I don't feel the Fitzsimmons tartan appears subdued in any manner; in fact, the Fitzsimmons tartan is a dark tartan (as it was intended to be) and simply put, dark does not equal subdued. The hunting variation, on the other hand, will appear subdued.

I don't think Fitzsimmons Hunting is "a bit silly" at all but I appreciate your candor here. I do realize the name may seem a peculiar (or confusing) choice, especially since the Fitzsimmons tartan itself contains a dark green field and could be perceived (from a historical perspective) as a hunting tartan. However, as a printer by trade I decided to use hunting in the tartan name because not only will the colors be muted (comparatively less saturated) but to me the name simply works. Why? Read on...

You and others reading this may think I've taken the word hunting too literally here but how many people actually hunt game wearing a kilt? I'm quite sure there are some of us that adventurous but personally, if I were to grab my rifle and head-out into the dark of the woods kilted, I sincerely doubt my kit would include any of the existing hunting tartans, excepting a few of the Hunting Weathered variations (Brodie, Buchanan, MacKinnon, et al). Ergo, I feel the majority of hunting tartans (ancient, modern, muted or weathered) are simply too bright for their namesake. Truthfully, you'd be hard-pressed to bring home the bacon because the bacon would see you coming a mile away!

From a veteran's perspective, I doubt I could survive battle wearing a tartan like Grant Hunting Ancient or Maclean Hunting Modern. That's not to say either of these particular tartans are unattractive or inappropriately named, no, not at all---I only use them as examples here but I'd get my **** shot off sooner than later wearing something so bright.

In the end, it's true that I'm no tartan expert and I may even misunderstand why hunting tartans exist at all. I'm well aware the name of this tartan may seem historically inappropriate or unacceptable (to you and others), but avoiding semantics, why deny or question my liberty to name the tartan as I wish? Being a tartan designer yourself, please try to accept all of this as artistic license and nothing more.

As I mentioned previously, I stand by my work. Thanks again for your input.

[majdan]

"but how many people actually hunt game wearing a kilt?"

I've been hunting Upland game birds in a kilt where I don't have to deal with heavy brush. I wear either Black Watch or my own " Son of MacBeadsheet(a muted green affair). Neither of these are as load as the Hunter's orange that is on my jacket.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Jeff,

Please just consider my previous two posts above simply me thinking outloud about the tartan name. For the record, I didn't say your name was "a bit silly." I used that phrase in my second post in reference to my own thoughts. I mentioned that in the MacAlpine tartan there existed two different versions, one with one fewer colors, and both tartans are simply called "MacAlpine." I said, however, that it seemed "a bit silly" to just call both versions of the Fitzsimmons tartan the same thing. You have a new tartan, you need to give it a new name.

All I was saying is that calling it "Fitzsimmons hunting" may be a bit confusing to those familiar with tartan naming conventions. I'm not "denying or questioning your libery" to name the tartan as you wish. I sincerely hope you are not upset about this. It is your tartan and you can call it what you want. I was simply offering you my suggestion, based on pre-existing tartan naming conventions, that Fitzsimmons hunting may confuse the issue for some.

You are quite right that calling it Fitzsimmons muted would also be confusing. Because "muted" already has a common useage in the tartan industry. I was only applying the same logic to the term "hunting." It was a commonly accepted useage in regards to tartan. Now, if you want to disregard that and name it "hunting" anyway, you are free to do so. There are exceptions to every rule! For instance, the Stephenson tartan is a blue/green based tartan, and the later designed Stephenson Hunting tartan is also a blue/green based tartan!

However, in general, what I said before regarding Hunting tartans is true, and it's something to be aware of when naming your new tartan. I honestly have no suggestions as to what else to call it, and it's not mine to name, anyway.

Like I said, just thinking outloud...!

M

[MacSimoin]

Matt,

No, I'm not upset with you at all. I relish learning from those, such as yourself, with more knowledge and experience. I took no offense and only meant to clarify my position and reasoning, flawed as is it may be.

From one tartan deigner to another, my comment about denying or questioning my liberty to name the tartan as I see fit was meant in a broader sense. I didn't mean to infer that that was your intention but rather why should anyone question it at all? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all.

Anyway, there it is...water under the bridge.

Majdan,

Good for you! Still, neither tartan you mention is something I would personally wear given the same situation. As for the required orange, it never entered my mind.

[MacSimoin]

The August 2007 edition of the Scottish Tartans Authority's newsletter, Tartan Herald, is now out. Inside are several enjoyable articles, especially the one about Brian Wilton's (STA Director) recent trip to Russia...Russian-Scots celebrating their heritage! Awesome.

The two new tartans mentioned here in this thread have been successfully recorded and accordingly, the ITI numbers are:

Bréifne, 7265

Fitzsimmons Hunting, 7266

I've been fortunate enough to have four tartan designs recorded by the STA, and I have at least four more tartans to do. I want to say Thank You to those who've encouraged me (and provided assistance) over the past few years (you know who you are!)...and ditto to everyone else for your kind words and for letting me share this with you here at Xmarks.