Are You A Clansman?

[macwilkin]

The Irish have Clans. I am a chieftain in the Clan Cian (read O'Carroll) But I also consider myself an Xmarker

That's a bit of a sticky wicket, though...the Irish have modern clan societies, but the Irish do not have a clan system similar to the Scottish one.

The Irish genealogist Sean Murphy has an excellent series of articles dealing with the issue of Irish clans & chiefs on his web site:

http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/

Murphy was involved with outing the pretender Terrence MacCarthy back in the late '90s.

Regards,

Todd

[gilmore]

There are none anymore, nor have there been for a few hundred years.

The clan system---alleged descendants of a common, often mythical, progenitor and maybe their retainers---existed in former times in the Scottish highlands (and rarely in the lowlands, which were, as we all know, settled by Northumbrian descendants of Angles, Saxons and Jutes.) It predated feudalism, which absorbed it, making most of the clan chiefs into feudal lords and changing the nature of their relationship with their followers, their clansmen. Later many if not most became mere landlords, sometimes expelling their former clansmen tenants when it became more profitable to raise sheep.

I am quite sure that you could count on maybe one hand the number of Americans who would take up arms and start killing or farming or fishing because some descendant of Scots who have lived south of the border for several centuries told them to. I wouldn't think there are many Britons who would do so either, probably none outside a chief's own family, if that.

Although many of us here had clanmen and women ancestors---and they were properly such in medieval, classical and prehistoric times---face it, today the notion is nothing more than an interesting artifact of one's family history.

[Streetcar]

Can I trace a "Scottish Clan" relationship? Yes. McDonald septs to Clanranald and Keppoch.
Do I pay the someone so I can claim membership in a group, who in return, grant me a newsletter, and notice of a few dinners? No.

HOWEVER...Do I belong to a clan in the sense of a group of friends/family who I know I can rely on in a crisis, and in return they can rely on me in a crisis?

Yes. Clan Kizzier and The "Auld Blue Clan" (police officers). And by extention, my cousins - The "Auld Red Clan" (Firefighters).

Otherwise, Steve said it best:

I signed up here, I post here. This is my Clan. This is my family.

[BoldHighlander]

Can I trace a "Scottish Clan" relationship? Yes. McDonald septs to Clanranald and Keppoch.
Do I pay the someone so I can claim membership in a group, who in return, grant me a newsletter, and notice of a few dinners? No.

Sadly true for some, but not for all. There are some groups that are very active in hosting various activities through out the year.


Okay, what drives me nuts however, is when someone asks me "what am I going to get out of joining"? It seems like everyone expects something for (almost) nothing.
I turn it around & say to them "as much as you give".

As state commissioner I am one person, an unpaid volunteer! I am not a millionaire, and have limited funds. I have ideas, and wish to provide more for my kinsmen in my area, but some of them need to step up to the plate & become involved, then "I/we" can do more as a clan society.

So if you choose to join a clan society, don't just sit back & wait for your monthly newsletter. Contact your area or nat'l rep and ask them what can I do to help? Or if you have an idea for an event, contact them, organize it, make it happen. The results might surprise you.
And that too is being a "Clansman"



(...oh, and Streetcar, I don't want you to think this was directed at you, it wasn't.
I was speaking in generalized terms )

[macwilkin]

Sadly true for some, but not for all. There are some groups that are very active in hosting various activities through out the year.


Okay, what drives me nuts however, is when someone asks me "what am I going to get out of joining"? It seems like everyone expects something for (almost) nothing.
I turn it around & say to them "as much as you give".

As state commissioner I am one person, an unpaid volunteer! I am not a millionaire, and have limited funds. I have ideas, and wish to provide more for my kinsmen in my area, but some of them need to step up to the plate & become involved, then "I/we" can do more as a clan society.

So if you choose to join a clan society, don't just sit back & wait for your monthly newsletter. Contact your area or nat'l rep and ask them what can I do to help? Or if you have an idea for an event, contact them, organize it, make it happen. The results might surprise you.
And that too is being a "Clansman"



(...oh, and Streetcar, I don't want you to think this was directed at you, it wasn't.
I was speaking in generalized terms )

Well said, sir! That's the same thing I tell folks as well -- don't sit on the sidelines and grouse about something, get involved.

T.

[Jack Daw]

Sadly true for some, but not for all. There are some groups that are very active in hosting various activities through out the year.


Okay, what drives me nuts however, is when someone asks me "what am I going to get out of joining"? It seems like everyone expects something for (almost) nothing.
I turn it around & say to them "as much as you give".

As state commissioner I am one person, an unpaid volunteer! I am not a millionaire, and have limited funds. I have ideas, and wish to provide more for my kinsmen in my area, but some of them need to step up to the plate & become involved, then "I/we" can do more as a clan society.

So if you choose to join a clan society, don't just sit back & wait for your monthly newsletter. Contact your area or nat'l rep and ask them what can I do to help? Or if you have an idea for an event, contact them, organize it, make it happen. The results might surprise you.
And that too is being a "Clansman"



(...oh, and Streetcar, I don't want you to think this was directed at you, it wasn't.
I was speaking in generalized terms )

I agree 100%. I chose not to serve as an officer, but as a clan rep. It's the only way our clan association can maintain membership. Our website doesn't get many hits. It started when I went to a clan gathering at a Scottish festival in Texas in 1999 and there was no Clan MacIntyre tent. I immediately saw my calling.

[macwilkin]

Can I trace a "Scottish Clan" relationship? Yes. McDonald septs to Clanranald and Keppoch.
Do I pay the someone so I can claim membership in a group, who in return, grant me a newsletter, and notice of a few dinners? No.

HOWEVER...Do I belong to a clan in the sense of a group of friends/family who I know I can rely on in a crisis, and in return they can rely on me in a crisis?

Yes. Clan Kizzier and The "Auld Blue Clan" (police officers). And by extention, my cousins - The "Auld Red Clan" (Firefighters).

Otherwise, Steve said it best:

I do hope you are not suggesting that those of us who do choose to participate in a clan society and its functions in the spirit of Sketraw's post are somehow in error.

I have made some very good friends through a membership in a clan society.

T.

[Streetcar]

I do hope you are not suggesting that those of us who do choose to participate in a clan society and its functions in the spirit of Sketraw's post are somehow in error.

I have made some very good friends through a membership in a clan society.

T.

Absolutely not! Upon reflection (and Boldhighlanders post) I realized that my response might have come off differently than intended.

A year or two back, I had spoken with a local Clan rep about the very subject. I asked what the benefits were to "formally" joining the clan. What did my dues get me?

The answer he gave was the basis of my original post.

Had that clan rep given me a response similar to Boldhighlander's, I likely would have had a different view on the subject.

So by no means was I intending to disparage those who are active in their clans - and I apologize for giving that impression.

In fact, once my girls have gotten a little older (hopefully providing the missus and I with a little more "free time") I would like to see if I can be a little more involved in the local Clan Donald.

[Clockwork John]

I was born a Campbell, and I'll die a Campbell, and that's good enough for me!

HOWEVER...Do I belong to a clan in the sense of a group of friends/family who I know I can rely on in a crisis, and in return they can rely on me in a crisis?

The Irish don't have clans, we have gangs!

In both of these senses, I'm proud to call myself a Rough and Rowdy Gadsden Boy.

There are a few of us who all grew up together, and at one point or another all lived/crashed/mooched/squatted together in my mom's apartment on Gadsden Avenue...

We've all got each other's back, we take care of each other, we defend each other if needed... Just like the old Irish street gangs.

If that's not a clan, then tell me... What is?

[Riverkilt]

Well, sorta maybe...kinda.

I have no trouble tracing my ancestry back through my father Ronald, Murdoch, Archibald, John, John, Gray, and Ludovic Macdonald who was born in Uig, Skye about 1750.

I have a copy of part of an undated petition from "tenant" Gray Macdonald to Lord Macdonald. Would have to be from before 1834 when Gray died. He tells Lord Macdonald that he has been a tennant for 20 years and always paid his rent on time. He has a wife and eight children and now "due to the late arrangements" he has been deprived of his lands and that he "never gave any cause of offense" to Lord Macdonald and that rather than emigrate to America with the other area tenants he would rather stay on the land with his family.

No clue whether he won his petition, but Gray Macdonald didn't emigrate. His son John sailed for America in 1854 with his wife and children but the ship was blown off course in winter storms and they landed in Nova Scotia and stayed put.

So, I'm wondering whether my four-great grandfather Gray Macdonald felt much allegiance to Lord Macdonald since he was booted off his land after 20 years of crofting.

In modern times I've joined Clan Donald for a few yearly memberships and understand the need to charge a fee to keep the Clan expenses paid. But usually it slips by. I know I don't need to pay to be a Macdonald. I was born to it. But I don't confuse that with joining a social clan society.

Trouble is, with all the Scots blood and resulting clans it can be kind of expensive every year. Don't wanna cut back on kilts and accessories.

And living in such a geographically remote area, what's the point. I'll stop by the clan tents at highland games.

Ron