Clans without Crests

**ghostlight** · 9th June 09, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

The whole idea/concept of an affiliated name only works if you can trace your line to the general area of the clan you wish to affiliate with; in other words, whilst Park may be indeed a "sept" of the Macdonalds of Clanranald, this gent's Parks may not even be from their territory.

I had the same problem when I started tracing my ancestors. I know of at least three clans claiming my primary family name, but research says my particular family is only related to one of them. The other side's details are a complete mess. Everyone assumed someone else was keeping track of things for them.

If you want your family to know where they came from start poking around carefully. Don't assume someone else is doing it for you, don't assume the family stories are true (most of mine were entertaining, but not verifiable) and don't pay someone else to sell you "your history".

**gilmore** · 9th June 09, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bluescelt

In some cases lowland family names are not associated with clans. Wearing a district tartan of the area your family came from can be a good way to feel connected.
Scott

Lord Lyon, and the Lyon Court, who make up the rules for clans, make no distinctions between lowland and highland families/clans/houses.

**JolyStNicholas** · 9th June 09, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Colonel MacNeal

Or you could actually be Korean.

I love it!! I am still laughing! Thank you for bring a smile to this ol face this early in the morn!

All good advice my friend, clan septs can wear that tartan with pride! Or a District Tartan with the same pride!

**JSFMACLJR** · 9th June 09, 05:17 AM

There are two armigerous Parks recorded in "An Ordinary of Arms," vol. 1; none in vol. 2. Perhaps you are related to either of these two gentlemen and can petition Lord Lyon for a matriculation.

1. James Park of ...(that's what the Ordinary says!)(1672-7): Azure, a fess chequy Argent and Gules between three fraises Argent.

2. Park of Fulfordlees (1672-7): Or, a fess chequy Gules and Argent between three bucks' heads cabossed, within a bordure Gules

**Bugbear** · 9th June 09, 11:05 AM

I remember my parents buying a "family crest" from a mail order bucket shop when I was a little kid: late seventies probably. And thank you for clarifying that so well, Todd.

**ghostlight** · 9th June 09, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

I remember my parents buying a "family crest" from a mail order bucket shop when I was a little kid: late seventies probably.

I have a half-brother whose other half decided that was an acceptable way to begin and end their genealogical studies. They have a "coat of arms" on the wall and a "family history" that is probably false and from the wrong country.

I offered to help him get started doing some serious research if/when he wants to take that step.

Back to the original poster's question:

If you'd like to wear the kilt, pick a universal tartan you like (or a contemporary kilt style) and enjoy wearing it regardless of which Parks you are descended from. You don't have to know exactly where you're from to begin enjoying yourself!

Genealogy (at least for me) has been much the same way. It's an entertaining pursuit, but it doesn't have to define who you are or limit what you can do. If you enjoy history and the sound of pipes and drums, like the kilt and get along well with a particular bunch of folks, most of them won't object to you joining in the fun.

The ones that do object can kindly and quietly go polish their Kilt Police badges in a dark corner.

**dfmacliam** · 9th June 09, 11:14 PM

I can trace my roots back to a Scottish Family... there is a family crest, and its not available anywhere... just as a work of art so to say... but thats ok... I choose to wear a clan badge that has more significance to me.. I wear the Marine Corps Clan badge... its where my loyalty lies.. I know everyone is different.. I am just saying.. this is my opinion...

If you feel you want to be part of a Clan, join the Clan Society, that your family is a sept of... it will give you a new extended family, and probably help tracing your roots, back to Scotland.. wear that clan badge with honor, and pride..

You might find yourself wearing the Thistle, the symbol of Scotland.. wearing a district tartan... wearing a Scottish National tartan.. or even a fashion tartan.. who knows.. but whatever you choose.. wear it with pride.. and with respect..

**Morris at Heathfield** · 10th June 09, 01:23 AM

Clan Donald has strict policies regarding sept names: if you can't trace your surname back to a particular area (e.g., the West Highlands and Islands of Scotland or Antrim County, Ireland), you won't be considered eligible for membership in the clan society. I would imagine that your surname is fairly common throughout the British Isles (According to Scots Kith & Kin it was also found in Renfrewshire and Berwickshire, outside Clan Donald territory), so you'd need to do some genealogical research to narrow it down. I'm not going to get into the argument of whether you need to be eligible for membership in a clan to wear its tartan except to note that there's no legal restriction on the vast majority of clan tartans.

On the other hand, there's also a Park tartan, STA ref. #2387. It strongly resembles the MacDonald of the Isles tartan. According to the Scottish Register of Tartans, there are restrictions on it, but it doesn't say what they are exactly. On the other hand the registration notes say that it can be worn by any of the name "Park". Presumably there is at least one weaver that is authorized to produce the tartan.

**Sketraw** · 10th June 09, 05:02 AM

As the thread is about Clans without Chiefs, you may be interested in 'The Council of Scottish Armigerous Clans and Families'

This is a new organisation being put together at present by a number of Scottish Armigers and heads of Territorial Houses. Its object is to aid those families seeking recognition from Lord Lyon as an officially recognised Clan, either by supporting their search for a genealogical link to a previous historic Chief, or by the derbhfine process of creating a new Chief/Commander of a clan.

The website has only one page up at the moment but you can download the draft constitution of the Council from that page by following the link above.

Any feedback, comments and suggestions are being looked for regarding the draft constitution and people are encouraged to have their say either by email, or if you are a member of facebook or panalba, join their group there.

**macwilkin** · 10th June 09, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by peacekeeper83

I can trace my roots back to a Scottish Family... there is a family crest, and its not available anywhere... just as a work of art so to say... but thats ok... I choose to wear a clan badge that has more significance to me.. I wear the Marine Corps Clan badge... its where my loyalty lies.. I know everyone is different.. I am just saying.. this is my opinion...

If you feel you want to be part of a Clan, join the Clan Society, that your family is a sept of... it will give you a new extended family, and probably help tracing your roots, back to Scotland.. wear that clan badge with honor, and pride..

You might find yourself wearing the Thistle, the symbol of Scotland.. wearing a district tartan... wearing a Scottish National tartan.. or even a fashion tartan.. who knows.. but whatever you choose.. wear it with pride.. and with respect..

By "family crest", did you mean a "clansman's badge", as there is no such thing as a "family crest" in Scottish heraldry.

T.