Glengarry's of old?

[79thReproductions]

Here's an original 79th New York glengarry I examined last winter. There's no date to it, but my friends and I believe if could be one of their 2nd issue glengarries in 1864. It was made in Scotland and imported for the Highlanders return to New York City......English markings and everything.

Its a bit taller the modern ones. There also is a SLIGHT curve on the bottom edge.







Don't mind the reproduction.... Its an early model

[79thReproductions]

I just posted a thread of colorized WW1 Soldier images. There are some great glengarry in the bunch!

[HarborSpringsPiper]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

[Paul]

Here are 3 glengarry's belonging to a member of the Lorne Scots regiment.
First is from the 40s, 2nd is from the 50s and the 3rd is from the 60s.



There doesnt seem to be too much difference between them other than some slight shaping issues. The first 2 are military issues and the 3rd was made in Scotland and was his personal headwear.

[OC Richard]

Nice reproduction of the 79thNY glen there!!! I'm sick and tired of seeing 79thNY reenactors wearing modern civilian glens with three-row red/white/black dicing.

Here I am a while back (boy I'm fat...I've lost 40lbs since then...)

[79thReproductions]

Thank you I have done most of my work with the boys in East Tennessee. That original is in Dewey Beards collection. I lived with him for almost two weeks doing research! Wonderful person.

We have talked years ago. Not sure if you remember.

I have more pictures if you are interested.....pictures of original...anything really.

Here you are Richard. This one was made before examining an original in person.





Quilted Silk/Polished cotton lining like most of the remaining originals.




Im sure you know this, but your dicing is backwards.

RED BLUE WHITE RED BLUE WHITE RED BLUE WHITE
WHITERED BLUE WHITE RED BLUE WHITE RED BLUE

[Kilted Rogue]

[QUOTE=OC Richard;810380]Nice reproduction of the 79thNY glen there!!! I'm sick and tired of seeing 79thNY reenactors wearing modern civilian glens with

three-row red/white/black dicing.

Here I am a while back (boy I'm fat...I've lost 40lbs since then...)

I should have know.
I find someone doing 79th on the web, exchange a few emails with him, then Bobs your uncle he show up on X Marks in his 79th kit, Talking to none other than the my primary source for 79th info

79thReproductions All the 79th glengarries I have seen have the same dicing. The Debose, Gettysburg, William Beard. If you have pictures of the 4th or 5th glengarry that exists, Id love to see it!

There are 5 known to exists...but I have heard rumors of a 6th... a 7th. Lord knows if I find one at a garage sale......... heh.

I started making glengarries with embroidered dicing on bodies that I made. I thought about altering modern black ones, but I came to the conclusion that making them out of wool, interfacing, and a lining cost less then a complete modern one to alter and in the end, it is more period in its shape and details.

I have always enjoyed your impression and work. I remember finding the site years ago and being blown away. Besides some close friends...no one knows the things that you were putting out on the web at that time.

Do you still have your impression? I remember seeing it on ebay I think. I hope no one bid and you were forced to keep that beautiful uniform!

[OC Richard]

OK, I see what I did: I followed the dicing pattern on the photos of members of the 79th I've seen (the guy wearing a shell jacket holding a sword, James Berry, and the group photo). All seem to show the dark blue squares in the upper row appearing over the white squares in the lower row.

I've seen the Gettysburg glen and it has the red squares in the upper row over the white squares in the lower row.

I suppose a quirk of Civil War photography could make the red appear darker than the blue??

In any sort of historical thing I always follow period photos rather than purported artifacts of murky provenance. So for the 79th prewar Full Dress uniform I take the period photos as my Gospel, unlike so many others who have chosen to follow the Albany uniform which has a completely different jacket, sporran, and glen. (Both L&M and some Pakistani or Indian company make 79th sporrans based on the postwar Albany sporran. Why they don't follow the prewar sporran as shown in the photos and on display at Gettyburg I can't imagine.)

About my 79th uniform, when I got into a financial crunch I sold it!!! D'oh! I never got everything just right anyhow... my plan was to order custom diced hose with plain white turnovers but I never go around to it. And my glen wasn't right as you can see. I did really like the sporran, jacket, and shoes though.

[79thReproductions]

Yup. The red appears slightly darker then the blue. All images of original 79th soldiers in their glengarries have the same effect, the Red->Blue->White pattern with the red being more prominent.

One of the issues with studying these images as they are, as I'm sure you are aware of, is their low digital quality. Details are lost, tones are all of the place and even the low resolution can distort actual attributes of the image.

Here's the 1st Sgt's glengarry.


Compare this to Sgt. Sheerer of Company I. The detail of this image is better ith:




The documented glengarries known are well established to be original examples from the 79th pre war/ 2nd issue from 1864. They all have a general consistency that matches the primary sources.

What is confusing even more me is how they are treated. The "Debose glengarry" for example has a feather hackle crudely sewn on. I'm sure its a post war alteration. Something to make it look cool even. The reason is that there are holes where the original cockaide was. Yup! Holes.....stitch marks. Wear outside where it used to be. There's also the fact that from the dozens of images of original soldiers, there is nothing seen like that.

The insignia is period though! "79 NY" and thistle

[79thReproductions]

Here are some more pictures from the recent Hendershott catalog. Richard, this is the dicing is in the arrangement you mentioned and did for your glengarry..... I stand corrected! This is the first original I have seen with the Blue, Red, White.

Its marked to Alexander Campbell, famous from "Him on the One Side and Me on the Other' : The Civil War Letters of Alexander Campbell, 79th New York Infantry Regiment, and James Campbell, 1st South Carolina Battalion"
Written by Terry Johnston.










This is like the glengarries thought to be from 1864. The tells are:

Profile: They have a more drastic curve.

Height: The front is shorter then the earlier glengarries seen in images of pre war/early war soldiers. These 1864 hats are common in post war images.

Lining Mark: Made in England, the later issue of glengarries are marked with a seal. Does anyone have any information on this seal?

Its possible that the person knitting this one slipped up! Easy enough error when working for a company trying to meet a quota. Who knows.

Cockades like these have never been seen in any prewar or war time image. Only in post war images. I think they were part of the uniform change.

Speaking of which. Richard, you might enjoy this. This is a post war image of the 79th New York National Guard....possibly taken in 1872-1876 because there is a mix and match of pre war uniform items with post war 1874 uniform items.



Left to right = Man 1 - 4

Men 2/4 are wearing 1864 glengarries. 1/3 are wearing the 1872 issue glengarries

Men 2/3 are wearing 1872 modified artillery jackets (Sporran cut outs) 1/4 are wearing the 1868 jackets.

They all seem to be wearing the new kilts. Cameron of Erracht Ancient. Changed from Cameron of Erracht Modern.

I could go on......but Ill spare the forum and not take up any more bandwidth!


Oh! And this glengarry is for sale. Only $17,500. If I had $17,500 in my pocket right now.......Isaac Stevens help me......