Irish Kilts

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

What amazes me is that a single person at a Scottish tartan mill (Polly Wittering at House Of Edgar) can, in 1996, invent out of thin air, tartans for each County in Ireland, and that these would be immediately accepted and worn by people of Irish descent all over the world.

If you think you are amazed, you should have heard the comments of Lord Inchiquin (Chief of the O'Brien's) as to his utter dismay at stepping from a plane in Australia to be greeted by a bunch of kilt-wearing O'Briens in their "ancient clan tartan"!

Talk about having the wool pulled over one's eyes...

[PGH]

uh oh ... is this going to spin into a kilts aren't Irish thread?

Since it's panto season in the UK can we try this?

Kilts aren't Irish!

Oh, yes they are!

Oh, no they're not!

And leave it at that?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

uh oh ... is this going to spin into a kilts aren't Irish thread?

Since it's panto season in the UK can we try this?

Kilts aren't Irish!

Oh, yes they are!

Oh, no they're not!

And leave it at that?

Oh Yes We Can!

[beloitpiper]

1. I agree with Rathdown. They're putting it in historical setting. Just because the castle is in Ireland doesn't mean they have to rewrite the history of the castle to make it more pleasant.

2. Kilts were invented in Scotland. Irish "plaids" were invented in Scotland. But that doesn't mean we can't adopt a kilt to wear for Irish events. I personally wear a saffron kilt for Irish events. It's been said before many times on these forums--know what you're wearing!!!

[claughmohr]

I have a touch of the Ulster Irish Blood, mostly the Irish used a saffron or related material for their garments. If I remember correctly, per the Laws of Brehon, a single color indicated a slave, a single stripe was for a freeman and so forth until you had 7 stripes indicating the Ard Rei, or another of equil ranking. The Laws of Brehon predated Christainity (Roman) in the Isles and were the Laws practiced by the Druids and the Ceile Dei (Spouses or Siblings of Christ). Near as I can tell, and this is a personal theory at best, is that the kilt is descended from a wrap worn by the warriors and people to carry their goods in when moving from one point to another-it functioned as a blanket and so forth while on the road and at home. The anchient garment of the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Bretons and the like was a knee length linen tunic-belted at the waist and a form of leggins or pants held in place with straps and knots. The Scots wore a bright yellow or saffron color to this tunic, I have heard varying descriptions of what color the Irish wore and have no idea concerning the Welsh and Bretons. The modern kilt, is partly being adopted because it isn't associated with the English. At least that is what the Welsh are telling me.

[OC Richard]

uh oh ... is this going to spin into a kilts aren't Irish thread?

Kilts aren't Irish!

Oh, yes they are!

Oh, no they're not!

There's not much point in that for sure! But it is interesting indeed for evidence to be brought to light, and for us all to perhaps learn.

Francis O Neill's comments are very interesting indeed, written c1900, when Highland pipes and kilts were being adapted to a revival of Irish nationalism.

[BEEDEE]

I see that recently someone has addressed this and designed tartans in line with the County colours.

I think you are referring to the County Crest series of tartans, woven by Marton Mills. I have a USAK in the County Antrim tartan.

Brian

[denmcdough]

Oh, and let's not forget that the Norsemen might have had something to do with the kilt. The word 'kilt' comes from middle English, but is of Scandinavian origin.....Old Norse...Kjalta.

So much information out there on the history of the kilt, it makes one's head spin. Who to believe??? I guess you'll believe whatever you want to believe. No one, and I mean no one, has the definitive answer!

[macwilkin]

Oh, and let's not forget that the Norsemen might have had something to do with the kilt. The word 'kilt' comes from middle English, but is of Scandinavian origin.....Old Norse...Kjalta.

So much information out there on the history of the kilt, it makes one's head spin. Who to believe??? I guess you'll believe whatever you want to believe. No one, and I mean no one, has the definitive answer!

I wouldn't say that...until there is documented evidence, right now most historians on the subject tend to agree that the kilt originated in Scotland in the 16th century, according to scholars such as H.F. McClintock in his Old Irish and Highland Dress, Kass McGann, Matt Newsome, etc.

T.

[O'Callaghan]

No, that's not taking a political position, it's called placing the style of the architecture in it's historical context, and it is done by architectural historians all the time.

So you would have me believe that you can't in any way tell if it were written by a loyalist or a republican? I can. More to the point, is there not any neutral way in which it could have been written? This was clearly not attempted.

The most remarkable thing is that the history was written from a loyalist perspective when it is located in the Republic! This is easily explicable, though, as it is written from the perspective of the family that owned it. You would think that they might want to be more diplomatic, though, otherwise the tricolour flying outside won't fool anyone.

Of course architectural historians do this sort of thing all the time. They are probably just as biassed as everyone else, too, LOL!

No point dragging this on much further. We both know where we stand.