Native American/First Nations tartans?

[sydnie7]

I'm for a beaded sporran!

I think this topic came up previously, and brought me to this site. I've purchased some of the patterns but they remain on the RTI ('round-to-it) list. Start with a "small purse" pattern and let your imagination take over?

[DougC]

I think this topic came up previously, and brought me to this site. I've purchased some of the patterns but they remain on the RTI ('round-to-it) list. Start with a "small purse" pattern and let your imagination take over?

That site was added to my favorites! Thank you

[ShaunMaxwell]

Add Chief Bowles of the Cherokees to the list... Born of a Scots father and a Cherokee mother. Bowles was killed at the Battle of the Neches in 1839.

[macwilkin]

he most famous Scoto-Indian of the early nineteenth century, the leader who oversaw Cherokee removal to Oklahoma, was John Ross. By blood Ross was seven-eighths Scots and one-eighth Cherokee. Educated by clergymen, he always spoke English better than Cherokee, although he understood it fluently. A visitor to Ross’s boyhood home once likened it to a Scottish manor house.

John Ross never forgot his Scottish links. During the spring of 1847 he read of the efforts of a Philadelphia organization to aid the Highland poor—estimated to number three hundred thousand—who were suffering from the potato famine. "Have the Scotch no claim on the Cherokees?" Ross asked. "Have they not a very especial claim? They have." Thus, he wrote to the Cherokee Advocate to request that the tribe meet in Tahlequah to raise money for the cause. The Cherokees met, appointed a relief committee, and in May 1847, sent $190 to a New York bank "for the relief of those who are suffering by the famine in Scotland." Many an Oklahoma Indian surname today harkens back to a distant Scottish ancestor.

-- http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...an_indians.htm

This is from an online version of Fernec Szasz's Scots in the North American West 1790-1917, University of Oklahoma Press, 2000.

T.

[james a. husky]

I agree with longhuntr regarding the quill v bead application on a bag/sporran. Quill work is rather expensive but reflects a greater (in my opinion) respect for tradition and has a element of intracacy that even seed beads can't replicate. Go for the Quillwork!

Cathy Smith is a well-known artisan, and a web search will bring up some others. Write to the Mohawk Government and ask to guided in your research.

http://www.cathyasmith.com/biography.htm

Another good source is Native Tech:

http://www.nativetech.org/quill/index.php

along with Nancy Fonicello's instruction on the same site:

http://www.nativetech.org/quill/plait.html



Regards and Best Wishes for your Journey of Discovery,

Jim aka kiltiemon

[james a. husky]

"Many of the tribes of the Eastern woodlands wore a kilt like garment."

I'm going to disagree with that one!

Eastern woodland men usually wore a basic breechcloth held up by a belt. On the legs (given the inclination) would be worn leggings of wool or leather (like biker chaps but not with an integral waistband like modern biker chaps). The leggings would be tied to the belt (breechcloth belt) with ties.

Independent of the leggings and breechcloth (and worn in a manner that MAY give an illusion of kilt-like garment) would be a traditional long shirt (might be referred to as a "hunting shirt" or something like that. It would (just like the "sarks" worn by the scots during that period) be a long shirt that hung down to the lower thighs or just above the knee. It would often be belted or sashed around the waist giving the appearance of a "skirted" garment, when it (in reality) was just a long shirt. For more protection and heavier "shirt" or jacket would be worn over that and belted around the waist as the shirt was.

But they were not "kilts" and they were not pleated. Here's some pictures:

A 1920s Seminole long shirt:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

A long shirt attributed to Osceola:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

An image of Billy Bowles:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\seminole shirt billy bowlegsdtc_5_tif.jpg

And finally one of "Powell" or Osceola, himself:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole Osceola_Kenney_and_Hall.jpg

Notice in this one above, Osceola appears to be wearing a shorter length legging garter-tied just below the knee (though the leggings that tied from the hip were also used with (again, a matter of style) garters tied just below the knee and above the calf. Pat Wickman, in her work on Osceola, discovered that he liked to wear two pair of garters and by micro-inspection of the fibers and analysis of the knots he used to tie them discovered he was a very slight man. Quite the flashy dresser, however.

Still, no kilt!

Jim aka kiltiemon

[Bigkahuna]

"Many of the tribes of the Eastern woodlands wore a kilt like garment."

I'm going to disagree with that one!

Eastern woodland men usually wore a basic breechcloth held up by a belt. On the legs (given the inclination) would be worn leggings of wool or leather (like biker chaps but not with an integral waistband like modern biker chaps). The leggings would be tied to the belt (breechcloth belt) with ties.

Independent of the leggings and breechcloth (and worn in a manner that MAY give an illusion of kilt-like garment) would be a traditional long shirt (might be referred to as a "hunting shirt" or something like that. It would (just like the "sarks" worn by the scots during that period) be a long shirt that hung down to the lower thighs or just above the knee. It would often be belted or sashed around the waist giving the appearance of a "skirted" garment, when it (in reality) was just a long shirt. For more protection and heavier "shirt" or jacket would be worn over that and belted around the waist as the shirt was.

But they were not "kilts" and they were not pleated. Here's some pictures:

A 1920s Seminole long shirt:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

A long shirt attributed to Osceola:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole-garb_thumb.jpg

An image of Billy Bowles:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\seminole shirt billy bowlegsdtc_5_tif.jpg

And finally one of "Powell" or Osceola, himself:
C:\Documents and Settings\Jim Husky\My Documents\My Pictures\New Folder (2)\Seminole Osceola_Kenney_and_Hall.jpg

Notice in this one above, Osceola appears to be wearing a shorter length legging garter-tied just below the knee (though the leggings that tied from the hip were also used with (again, a matter of style) garters tied just below the knee and above the calf. Pat Wickman, in her work on Osceola, discovered that he liked to wear two pair of garters and by micro-inspection of the fibers and analysis of the knots he used to tie them discovered he was a very slight man. Quite the flashy dresser, however.

Still, no kilt!

Jim aka kiltiemon

First of all, I never said they wore it all the time. The breechclout was by far the most common form of dress. As to the examples you site, they are all Muskogee. They are not really considered Eastern Woodlands Peoples. The Iroquois, Hurons, Delawares and Cherokees all had an unbifurcated garment very much like the kilt. This is not a hunting shirt with a sash around the waist, but an actual kilt-like garment.

[james a. husky]

Bill... Thanks for posting that link! I'm a bit of a technophobe...

DaNeil...

I'm aware of the Southwest People and have seen modern representations (photos and paintings) of their dancing with something that looks like a short sarong albeit appearing to be made with a heavier fabric than a sarong (based on the way it hung). I've never seen anything that looked "kilted" or pleated. I guess I've found a new internet quest to spend some time on.

The only Dances I've attended have had primarily Eastern and Southeastern folks, with some Northern Plains people and the style of dress they bring with them. The same with Rendevous and Living History/Reenactment, the latter being solely Eastern and Southeastern influences (and that 1750's through 1783).

I've also never seen (either worn or depicted) anything from the Longhouse People that looked like a "kilt" to me. Do you have any pictures or sites that depict these?

I know that the variability of the breechcloth, leggings, and shirt combination is amazingly diverse to the modern eye and I've always felt it a marvelous clothing philosophy. Well adapted to the mission at hand... utilitarian, protection from elements, "Gettin' Jiggy" (i.e. attractiveness, style, and decoration), etc..

I'll always choose quills over beads, though. Some of the people who dance and who use all "traditional" materials, handweaving, brain-tanning, quills, etc., are near to carrying the monetary value of a fairly nice automobile on thier shoulders. Absolutely amazing levels of craftsmanship and dedication to the Dance and to Heritage!

Jim aka kiltiemon (PGR also)

[dfmacliam]

Scottish Highlanders, Indian Peoples: Thirty Generations of a Montana Family
Scottish Highlanders and Indians Share Roots in Montana

Scottish history and that of Montana and its Native Americans might seem continents apart, but a book from the Montana Historical Society Press links the two in an epic tale.

Scottish Highlanders, Indian Peoples: Thirty Generations of a Montana Family traces the history of the McDonald family from the clan's emigration to the Scottish Highlands from Ireland in the ninth century to the lives of the McDonald descendants who still reside on the Flathead Reservation in Montana today.

William Farr, history professor at the University of Montana, called it "a fascinating story of mixed inheritance and cultural brokering in the Rocky Mountain West, one which will surely enrich the reader's understanding of race and identity."

In the early 1800s Angus McDonald, who had left Scotland and become a trader in the Pacific Northwest, married Catherine, who was the daughter of a Nez Perce chief.

To this happy union Angus brought the history of his clan's unsuccessful fight to remain free and independent, which included the bitter memory of a seventeenth-century governmental attempt to kill all McDonalds under age seventy.

Catherine carried the proud heritage of her people who already were locked in a desperate struggle to retain their homeland in present-day Idaho and Washington.

Both knew what it was to be faced with powerful enemies—England and the United States respectively. Both knew what it meant to be faced with their conquerers' policies of total war and the loss of the control of much of their land.

Author James Hunter, who lives in Scotland and did extensive research with the McDonalds of Montana, uncovers uncanny parallels between the fate of the native Highland clans and that of North American Indians.

Hunter begins his book near Missoula in 1877 where the Nez Perce under Chief Joseph outflanked a feeble attempt by local militia to block their entry into the Bitterroot Valley.

Present at that encounter was Angus and Catherine's son, Duncan, who wrote a history of the Nez Perce War defending the tribe's attempt to retain its freedom.

Throughout the rest of the book Hunter searches across two continents and weaves a story that colorfully links the clans of Scotland with the native people of the American West.

Joseph F. McDonald, a descendant of Angus and Catherine and president of the Salish Kootenai College in Pablo, Mont., said Hunter "shows unusual perception of Indian culture, their beliefs, and their feelings for the land in his writing of this book."

"The McDonald family is especially indebted to the author for the special attention given to the McDonalds for their part in Scottish history and their history in the Northwest," McDonald said.

The Glasgow Herald from Scotland's side of the Atlantic called it "a superb book, well researched and excitingly written."

[Riverkilt]

Have always had notions of inflicting Scottish culture on Native Americans. Tartans could well be designed using the colors of their tribal seals or flags.

Here in Navajo land thought there could be some beautiful tartans created from the base colors of their traditional wool rugs. Rugs are often woven in a pattern symbolic of the geograpic area they were created in or for. Would be sort of regional tartans.

Course, as pointed out, few Navajos would have an interest.

There are over 100 Navajo clans - would be a daunting task to design tartans for each clan - and who would do it?

Hopi wear an unbifurcated garment for traditional ceremonies. The word for it is translated from Hopi to English as "kilt." But no tartan involved in its design. Hopi men weave their own kilts.

The potential is there, but the interest is not...