Derrick's The Image of Irelande (1581) & Irish Clothing

[BoldHighlander]

Also, thanks boldhighlander you put in a lot of work posting all that.

Your very welcome!

Since I had a touch of some stomach "bug" the last couple days, it took me a wee bit longer to put together than planned...

Terry,
great stuff. I look forward to reading more as this conversation develops.

You & me both, Scott! :mrgreen:

I would also love to see this "Dungiven paper" that Matt & Peter allude too (hint, hint)...

While it is possible that the trews were made in Scotland for a Scot, it is just as possible that they were made in Scotland for an Irish man......

While we'll never know for certain, the likelihood is that the tartan was woven in Scotland, and that the trews were made in Scotland. How they came to be in Ireland is anybody's guess, but it's fun to conjecture that they may have originally belonged to the O'Niell, himself.

I've always felt that these trews/outfit belonged to an Ulster-Scot, someone from the emigrant Scots/Galloglass community....however this is just a feeling and nothing more. Like Scott (MoR), I think we'll never know for certain. And also, like Scott, I think it's fun to conjecture

This reminds me of a Shakespeare quote from Macbeth which is close to my heart.

"The mercilesse Macdonwald
(Worthie to be a Rebell, for to that
The multiplying Villanies of Nature
Doe swarme vpon him) from the Westerne Isles
Of Kerns and Gallowglasses is supply'd ; "

Nice! Thanks for sharing that, 'X'!

I hope if anyone else has Tudor period illustrations of Irish /Galloglass dress, that they would consider adding them to this thread.

[slohairt]

Your very welcome!

Since I had a touch of some stomach "bug" the last couple days, it took me a wee bit longer to put together than planned...



You & me both, Scott! :mrgreen:

I would also love to see this "Dungiven paper" that Matt & Peter allude too (hint, hint)...



I've always felt that these trews/outfit belonged to an Ulster-Scot, someone from the emigrant Scots/Galloglass community....however this is just a feeling and nothing more. Like Scott (MoR), I think we'll never know for certain. And also, like Scott, I think it's fun to conjecture



Nice! Thanks for sharing that, 'X'!

I hope if anyone else has Tudor period illustrations of Irish /Galloglass dress, that they would consider adding them to this thread.

Great pictures, Terry!

It certainly is possible that they belonged to an Ulster Scot or a Gallowglass. It should be noted, Terry, that those terms aren't really that interchangeable. Ulster Scots (usually) refers to those who came with the Plantation and were mostly Protestant Lowlanders. The Gallowglass were (usually) Gaelic-speaking Catholics who assimilated to Irish culture with even greater ease than the Normans. There are many Irish with Gallowglass ancestry (myself included) that don't really identify as being an Ulster Scot.

[slohairt]

It's too bad Pearse and co. didn't give the Dungiven costume more thought than they did. It could have been 'updated' fairly easily: a modern military-style trews, a doublet of some kind, and a plaid. Maybe even a Kilmainham or pennanular brooch thrown in for panache!

[BoldHighlander]

Great pictures, Terry!

It certainly is possible that they belonged to an Ulster Scot or a Gallowglass. It should be noted, Terry, that those terms aren't really that interchangeable. Ulster Scots (usually) refers to those who came with the Plantation and were mostly Protestant Lowlanders. The Gallowglass were (usually) Gaelic-speaking Catholics who assimilated to Irish culture with even greater ease than the Normans. There are many Irish with Gallowglass ancestry (myself included) that don't really identify as being an Ulster Scot.

Thanks John.

I didn't mean to imply that the Galloglass & the Ulster-Scots were one and the same. I actually meant to convey "belonging to either or". Sorry for the confusion.

[Paul Henry]

Matt,

Is your opinion that the Dungiven Costume was made in Scotland, by a Scot for a Scot with Scottish made materials?

I'm not sure how you think Matt would be able to answer those questions, there are just too many imponderables.

I've just read the journal article as well, very interesting to see that some of the weaving was a herringbone pattern as well- just to follow on from some of Peter's articles!

[Nick the DSM]

Fascinating images!

Cool to a Durer piece in there as well.

[muirkirkca]

Great set of images. Shows that the common foot solder likely wore tunic like garments from the time of the Roman invasion and perhaps beyond. Would be reasonable that leggings ( trews )would have been added at the interest of the wearer.

[Tobus]

I'm curious about the headgear worn by the man on the left in this picture. What is that?

[CMcG]

I don't have much to add to the discussion but I'm certainly enjoying this thread!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm curious about the headgear worn by the man on the left in this picture. What is that?

The two men on the left are both wearing helmets. Presumably the one on the far left has a nose piece that folds down to further protect the face of the wearer. Since this engraving was done by Albrecht Drurer in 1521, I suspect that both helmets were of German manufacture, Germany then being the center of the armour industry. Interestingly the close fitting "skull cap" helmet is padded on the outside which raises the question as to its construction. The padding suggests that it might be a leather arming cap, intended to be worn under a heavier iron helmet, as opposed to being the actual iron helmet itself.

The other fellow (the one wearing the Birkenstocks and carrying the bow and arrows) is wearing an equally interesting helmet as it appears the the visor is actually a bevor which is designed to fold down to provide protection for the throat and lower face while leaving the wearer with an unobstructed field of view in a battle. The style of this helmet suggests that it is probably a quarter century older than the date of the engraving, thus it is likely that it is an example of the transition from the very open basnet-style of helmet to the sallet helmet which was close fitting and provided full protection for the head and neck.

Neither helmet is what would have been considered cutting edge technology in the first quarter of the 16th century, but rather they are solid and serviceable pieces of armour of the sort that would have been commonly encountered throughout Europe at that time.