US or Confederate kilted units? Ever?

[haukehaien]

I am not aware of any kilted Confederate forces, I vaguely remember a Highland type regiment wearing on for parade. There was a story floating around about a unit wanting to go be kilted in combat and were refusing to serve till McClellan threatened to shoot them. Not sure if there is any validity to that story.

There may be a grain of truth, although it appears that kilts had nothing to do with the story. Bruce Catton tells this story about the 79th NY:

"The 79th New york was a former militia regiment; called itself the 'Highlanders,' came to Washington in the bare-kneed glory of kilts, and had a crusty Scottish colonel named Cameron. It had been at Bull Run, where its colonel had been killed; it had long since abandoned kilts for the regulation sky-blue pants, and it was fed up with military life. Also, it was brigaded under William Tecumseh Sherman, who was a hard man and who at that time seems to have had something to learn about the way to handle volunteer troops. So one morning the 79th refused to do duty and demanded an adjustment of its grievances. McClellan rounded up a battalion of regular infantry, plus a squadron of regular cavalry and a battery of regular artillery - hard-boiled Indian fighters from the plains, filled with strong disdain for volunteer soldiers - and lined them up facing the 79th, firearms loaded and ready for use; whereupon the 79th was invited to stop being mutinous and return to duty."

Catton goes on to say that the 79th (which had not intended mutiny, but only to express their grievances as free citizens) returned to duty without anyone being shot. McClellan confiscated the regiment's colors and kept them in his office, returning them a month later with the comment that the Highlanders had redeemed themselves by good conduct. Annoyingly, Catton does not cite a source for this story, although it is generally corroborated by William Todd's regimental history.

[Taygrd]

There may be a grain of truth, although it appears that kilts had nothing to do with the story. Bruce Catton tells this story about the 79th NY:

"The 79th New york was a former militia regiment; called itself the 'Highlanders,' came to Washington in the bare-kneed glory of kilts, and had a crusty Scottish colonel named Cameron. It had been at Bull Run, where its colonel had been killed; it had long since abandoned kilts for the regulation sky-blue pants, and it was fed up with military life. Also, it was brigaded under William Tecumseh Sherman, who was a hard man and who at that time seems to have had something to learn about the way to handle volunteer troops. So one morning the 79th refused to do duty and demanded an adjustment of its grievances. McClellan rounded up a battalion of regular infantry, plus a squadron of regular cavalry and a battery of regular artillery - hard-boiled Indian fighters from the plains, filled with strong disdain for volunteer soldiers - and lined them up facing the 79th, firearms loaded and ready for use; whereupon the 79th was invited to stop being mutinous and return to duty."

Catton goes on to say that the 79th (which had not intended mutiny, but only to express their grievances as free citizens) returned to duty without anyone being shot. McClellan confiscated the regiment's colors and kept them in his office, returning them a month later with the comment that the Highlanders had redeemed themselves by good conduct. Annoyingly, Catton does not cite a source for this story, although it is generally corroborated by William Todd's regimental history.

Thank you for finding that, I think that story is what I recalled. My memory is very much like my bookshelfs-Cluttered, without much organization, and dependent on other things to support it. Without a source tends to lend itself to folklore or some soldiers vague recollection which makes it hard to verify

[Slag101]

No! There is no known evidence to support any regiment, person, anyone, wearing a kilt at any battle of the american civil war. There is also no evidence to support the playing of bagpipes at any battle. The closer we get to the reenacting season, the more this question seems to pop up.. Don't look for and excuse to act like a FARB/Streamer. If your going to FARB it up, as the Nike ads say, "Just Do it." Otherwise, would people stop looking for the one example, excuse, etc. to justify them wearing the kilt to funnel cake row. Sorry to gripe and rant here, but I am just sick of this question and people fishing to justify what they want to do. Do it, and be historically in correct, or don't do it and be accurate. I don't care either way, just stop looking for a way to justify your inaccurate portrayal to other reenactors around the campfire at night, while you chug back on a few tall boys, and tell the story of the one guy, in the battle of 7 1/4 Pines, on the 25th day of the battle at the 7th hour who wore a kilt and played the pipe fr 32 1/2 seconds, until someone from his own unit shot him in the head for not accurately portraying a soldier of the 25 5/8 Virginia Half Quart Low Volunteer Mounted Infantry Naval Fleet.

Sorry, my rant is over. It just needed to be said.

[auld argonian]

No! There is no known evidence to support any regiment, person, anyone, wearing a kilt at any battle of the american civil war. There is also no evidence to support the playing of bagpipes at any battle. The closer we get to the reenacting season, the more this question seems to pop up.. Don't look for and excuse to act like a FARB/Streamer. If your going to FARB it up, as the Nike ads say, "Just Do it." Otherwise, would people stop looking for the one example, excuse, etc. to justify them wearing the kilt to funnel cake row. Sorry to gripe and rant here, but I am just sick of this question and people fishing to justify what they want to do. Do it, and be historically in correct, or don't do it and be accurate. I don't care either way, just stop looking for a way to justify your inaccurate portrayal to other reenactors around the campfire at night, while you chug back on a few tall boys, and tell the story of the one guy, in the battle of 7 1/4 Pines, on the 25th day of the battle at the 7th hour who wore a kilt and played the pipe fr 32 1/2 seconds, until someone from his own unit shot him in the head for not accurately portraying a soldier of the 25 5/8 Virginia Half Quart Low Volunteer Mounted Infantry Naval Fleet.

Sorry, my rant is over. It just needed to be said.

Seriously, I have to agree with you. Seems like several people are just BEGGING for an excuse to re-write history with this and somebody has finally said "NO"...'bout time.

Best

AA

[Hocfutue]

For those interested, William Todd's "The Seventy-ninth Highlanders, New York Volunteers in the War of Rebellion" is available in its entirety on Google Books.

Google books is an incredible resource/time sink!

[ForresterModern]

There were numerous British "observers" at many of the prominent battles of the US Civil War, particularly Gettysburg, as the confederates were trying to enlist the foreign support of the British Empire throughout the war. Confederate blockade runners were most often of British origin and carried goods predominantly between Britain and the confederacy as Britain was the economic outlet of their cotton and tobacco as well as the supplier of their military needs.

Gettysburg plays prominently in this whole picture, in more ways than one the turning point in the war, as the confederates were convinced that a victory on Union soil would almost certainly bring the British much more into their support by supplying gunships and supplies that could have turned the course of the war in their favor.

No kilts, though, to my knowledge.


jeff

[Biathlonman]

Confederate raiders came down from Canada in mid-Civil War and shot up the town of St Albans Vermont - which must have been rather a surprise for the locals. Can't have helped relations with Canada much.

And of course we got substantial Fenian Raids in return - with casualties on both sides - mostly ours. But the member who provided the link to the 79th New York Volunteers opened my eyes. Fascinating, surprising reading.

The prejudice against the British way of waging war was a huge problem amongst the Allied generals in WW2 - recent scholarship is very clear. Some American generals acted as if the War of 1812 had just ended. Pick up one of Rick Atkinson's first two books of his still-being-written trilogy. The US has never seen the British Army as a role model and followed the French way of things until they realized they the French had stopped winning wars.

[macwilkin]

The US has never seen the British Army as a role model and followed the French way of things until they realized they the French had stopped winning wars.

Well...not exactly. The French as a role model declined after 1870; see my previous post.

Yes, there were noted Anglophobes such as Admiral Ernest King and "Vingear Joe" Stillwell, but there were also American military leaders, especially at the turn of the 20th Century, who believed in the idea of the "Anglosphere" and looked to Britain as an example, especially given the rise of America as an "Imperial" power. For example, Alfred Thayer Mahan used British Naval History as an example for American seapower, and Teddy Roosevelt believed in the Anglo-American friendship, save that slight disagreement over Venezuela in 1895.

Individual American military personnel also came into contact with British and Dominion/Imperial Forces during the Boxer Rebellion of 1900, where the US Marines and the Royal Welch Fusiliers developed an alliance that lasts to this day. The 1st Marine Division developed a similar affinity for the ANZAC forces they fought along side with in the Pacific, and the former adopted "Waltzing Matilda" as their official march.

US forces also came into contact with British customs and traditions; the "China Marines", for example, and their counterparts in the Allied occupation of Iceland in 1941-42, the "Polar Bear Marines" (my great-uncle was a Naval Corpsman with them) re-introduced the concept of "Mess Night" or a "Dining In" to the Corps.

T.

[SlackerDrummer]

From the Osprey Publishing series Men-at-Arms, The Confederate Army 1861-1865: South Carolina & Mississippi, pp. 4-5 under the sub-heading Uniformed Volunteer Militia:

Of several Scottish Charleston companies the oldest was the Union Light Infantry, formed at the Carolina Coffee House during 1807. Named in honor of the union of Scotland with England in 1707, this "Lowland" corps maintained a Scottish style of dress throughout its existence. A veteran writing to the New York Scottish American Journal in 1870 commented that it's pre-war uniform included "the tartan plaid and pants and bonnet of the [British Army's] 42nd Highlanders, and gilt thistle buttons on their coats." Another company, called the Highland Guard, was established during 1857. Still in existence on the eve of the Civil War, this unit wore a full highland uniform even closer to that of the 42nd (Highland) Regt: a bearskin bonnet with red plume, scarlet doublet with dark blue facings, and kilt of black and green Government sett ("Black Watch" tartan).

Keep in mind that when the militia were absorbed into the Confederate army, whatever unique uniforms they had would have been replaced with the standard uniform provided by their state.

EDITED to add: I know one of the Irish militia companies was wearing its green uniforms at the mass of South Carolina militias at Fort Sumter, so it is possible that one of these Charleston Scottish companies was wearing a Highland uniform at that engagement. It is very highly doubtful that they would have at any time after that.

[Lallans]

Confederate raiders came down from Canada in mid-Civil War and shot up the town of St Albans Vermont - which must have been rather a surprise for the locals. Can't have helped relations with Canada much.

And of course we got substantial Fenian Raids in return - with casualties on both sides - mostly ours. But the member who provided the link to the 79th New York Volunteers opened my eyes. Fascinating, surprising reading.
.

St Albans is a town I pass through regularly, and since obtaining a Confederate-look kepi I've been tempted to wear one around the old part of town there, on the anniversary of the big raid- but in consideration of current events, haven't- out of fear I'll be banned at the border as a terrorist. There's a movie about that raid too, called the St Albans Raid!

Don't know how the Fenian Raids went in your part of Canada, but when those supposedly tough Union Army Irish vets showed up in my part of it, and there was some warning received from US officials, they got their butts shot off by the local farm boys and retreated ingloriously, leaving their dead behind.