Cameron Tartan

[davidg]

Just Google The Basics of Clan Cameron and the second tartan illustrated(Cameron of Lochiel) and it will confirm what I say.

Yes, that clarifies it quite well at http://www.clan-cameron.org/basics.html

However, it is not a restricted tartan. It is freely available from Lochcarron and Strathmore according to my trade brochures and the Scottish Tartans Authority, whereas restricted tartan can only be sold under licence and is generally not available to the public. That means the OP could be sold a kilt in that tartan by any kiltmaker and would be none the wiser about his blunder unless you had pointed this out

This is the kind of convention that exists with a few tartans, such as the Balmoral. Whilst not restricted tartans, which the wearing of without permission would constitute a criminal offence (in the UK at least), it is a tartan that is not conventionally worn other than by the chief. It would therefore be a major faux pas for the OP to wear the Lochiel tartan if he ever wanted to join other Camerons at highland events

[Jock Scot]

So what exactly are Lochcarron saying? Are they saying; "Yes we do make Cameron of Lochiel tartan"? Or are they saying; "Yes we do make Cameron of Lochiel tartan, but we only sell it to the Chief and his immediate family"? Or, are they saying: "Yes we do make Cameron of Lochiel tartan and we sell it to everyone"? Three very different answers.

[kilted scholar]

This is an intriguing question, about which I have no personal interest.
Both TartanMill (ex-Scotweb) and Kinloch Anderson sell kilts in Cameron of Lochiel. Neither the Scottish Tartans Authority nor The Scottish Register of Tartans give any indication whatever that any of the various Cameron of Lochiel tartans are restricted.

[Jock Scot]

This is an intriguing question, about which I have no personal interest.
Both TartanMill (ex-Scotweb) and Kinloch Anderson sell kilts in Cameron of Lochiel. Neither the Scottish Tartans Authority nor The Scottish Register of Tartans give any indication whatever that any of the various Cameron of Lochiel tartans are restricted.

I wonder, if these establishments mean Cameron of Lochiel(hunting)? According to the Cameron website(exert posted above, thank you)this version is not restricted.

Perhaps when I bump into Lochiel next, I will remember to ask him.

[kilted scholar]

No, Jock, it looks very much to me like the regular tartan.
The STA and SRT sites list all the variations.

[Jock Scot]

No, Jock, it looks very much to me like the regular tartan.
The STA and SRT sites list all the variations.

Well then , I know not!

[davidg]

Both TartanMill (ex-Scotweb) and Kinloch Anderson sell kilts in Cameron of Lochiel.

Point proven. If it were restricted they would NOT BE ALLOWED to sell such kilts. They wouldn't even be able to buy the cloth!

The clan "reserving" that tartan for the chief is NOT the same as legally "restricting" it which they simply cannot do. Anyone outside of the clan can actually wear what they want, even if that does not respect the wishes of the clan or its chief

[longhuntr74]

The clan "reserving" that tartan for the chief is NOT the same as legally "restricting" it which they simply cannot do. Anyone outside of the clan can actually wear what they want, even if that does not respect the wishes of the clan or its chief

Could you imagine wearing this tartan in a kilt at ANY highland games where there were Cameron's present.? We've had several threads lately about the "kilt police." Can you imagine how much angst and scorn you would create amongst the Camerons who are aware of this tartan and the convention. You'd probably be verbally accosted at least 5 times in a single day!!!

[davidg]

So what exactly are Lochcarron saying?

They're not saying anything Jock. They simply would not be allowed to sell a restricted tartan without permission of the holder of the rights. As this tartan was designed in 1840, if memory serves me correctly, it cannot possibly be restricted under international copyright law as nobody holds the rights any longer than 75 years after the death of the copyright holder

All modern tartans come under copyright law but most are simply put into the public domain without any restriction whatsoever. Other tartans, like Isle of Skye, are freely licensed to the general public and for these tartans the supplier, i.e. the kilt maker, has to pay a surcharge which is effectively the licence fee paid on behalf of the end user. Other tartans are fully restricted and can not be sold to anyone except to a licensed outlet for a specific and approved use

All other tartans, that is those that are out of copyright like Lochiel, can be freely woven, sold or worn by anyone without exception but there are a few tartans that convention says should not be worn. The Balmoral, for example, is used by the Royal Family and it is bad form for anyone else to wear it. The Cameron of Lochiel tartan appears to fall into this same category of being reserved for use by the chief and not normally worn by clansmen. To do so would cause offence but you can't physically be stopped from weaving, buying or wearing it

That was precisely what I was meaning when I said to the OP that they would be advised to check the Clan Cameron site so that they could become aware of any special conventions. The danger of them simply going to a kilt maker would be that, especially in this case, because the tartan is not restricted it could have been sold to them and they would unwittingly have broken the convention which may, in turn, have cause offence and embarrassment

You certainly did the OP a good service with finding the information but I think the crossing of our posts may have confused you. Twice I was still composing whilst you were already posting so it may have looked like I was trying to argue with you, which was not the case. However, the fact does remain that this is a convention rather than a restriction, which has quite a specific meaning in the trade

[figheadair]

They're not saying anything Jock. They simply would not be allowed to sell a restricted tartan without permission of the holder of the rights. As this tartan was designed in 1840, if memory serves me correctly, it cannot possibly be restricted under international copyright law as nobody holds the rights any longer than 75 years after the death of the copyright holder

Actually Wilsons were weaving it a early as 1800.