Another Ebay sporran!!!

[madmacs]

I believe Scotland started marking silver in Edinburgh 1457 with a date stamp being added in 1759... It was really a guarantee that the item was silver, and not a requirement unless you were selling it as silver.

I am guessing that for a lot of fancy goods silver was a lot cheaper than gold, and being malleable a lot easier to work with than iron or other metals...

With the price of metals today however I would be surprised at a seller selling a huge chunk of silver without knowing what it is... Afterall might turn out to be Pt950...

[Jock Scot]

I believe Scotland started marking silver in Edinburgh 1457 with a date stamp being added in 1759... It was really a guarantee that the item was silver, and not a requirement unless you were selling it as silver.

I am guessing that for a lot of fancy goods silver was a lot cheaper than gold, and being malleable a lot easier to work with than iron or other metals...

With the price of metals today however I would be surprised at a seller selling a huge chunk of silver without knowing what it is... After all might turn out to be Pt950...

The owner could have the unmarked piece tested and IF it meets the technical requirements, the owner could have the piece hallmarked with THIS YEARS hallmarks. Well that would allow the owner to legally sell the piece as silver, the problem then might be, that a purchaser might not want a 150 year old piece of metal(silver, as we now know) with a 2012 date stamp on it.

[madmacs]

The owner could have the unmarked piece tested and IF it meets the technical requirements, the owner could have the piece hallmarked with THIS YEARS hallmarks. Well that would allow the owner to legally sell the piece as silver, the problem then might be, that a purchaser might not want a 150 year old piece of metal(silver, as we now know) with a 2012 date stamp on it.

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

[Paul Henry]

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

Unless it is hallmarked it cannot legally be sold as silver, of course a test can be done to check if it is indeed silver, but that test has no bearing on the item if it is sold, Hallmarks in the UK are very important in showing if the item is indeed a precious metal and are a guarantee of metal content

[Jock Scot]

He could also have it tested at most jewellers to verify if it was silver without it getting hallmarked

Indeed he could,but without hallmarks he cannot legally sell it as silver and nor can his agent, Ebay for example. Therefore the legal definition and description is "white metal" and is sold and bought under that heading, regardless of whatever the metal might actually be.

[Jock Scot]

As I understand it, in the UK a piece of metal, that could well be silver, cannot be sold as silver without hall marks. Without hall marks, it would be described as "white metal".

[Chas]

The Hallmarking Act 1973 made Britain a member of the Vienna Convention as well as introducing marking for platinum, a recognised metal under the Convention. All four remaining assay offices finally adopted the same date letter sequences. The latest changes in 1999 were made to the UK hallmarking system to bring the system closer into line with the European Union (EU). Note: that under this latest enactment, the date letter is no longer a compulsory part of the hallmark.

As it now stands, the compulsory part of the UK hallmark consists of the sponsor or maker's mark, the assay office mark, and the standard of fineness (in this case silver, 925 parts in 1000).

Regards

Chas

[Jock Scot]

Thank you Chas, I did not know about the date stamp being optional these days. I personally would require one

Nevertheless would I want , as a purchaser of an antique, fresh hallmarks? In this modern day world of fakery from all corners of this Earth, alarm bells would ring loud and clear and even if I took the decision (and risk) to purchase a legitimate piece, my ancestors may have a torrid time explaining to whoever that a 150 year old antique has fresh hallmarks. No, this bidder would step away as many would, therefore the less bidders in the game the lower the price. Good in the short term for the purchaser, bad all round for the seller of today and years to come.

UK silver buyer's law. Rule I. No hallmarks, its not silver.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 2. Regard antique silver with fresh hallmarks with suspicion.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 3. If rule one and/or rule two apply, walk away, there is plenty more "good" stuff to be found elsewhere.

UK silver sellers lament. A curse on those that failed to hallmark their wares at the appropriate time!

[Chas]

Thank you Chas, I did not know about the date stamp being optional these days. I personally would require one

Nevertheless would I want , as a purchaser of an antique, fresh hallmarks? In this modern day world of fakery from all corners of this Earth, alarm bells would ring loud and clear and even if I took the decision (and risk) to purchase a legitimate piece, my ancestors may have a torrid time explaining to whoever that a 150 year old antique has fresh hallmarks. No, this bidder would step away as many would, therefore the less bidders in the game the lower the price. Good in the short term for the purchaser, bad all round for the seller of today and years to come.

It is far more common than we might at first think. Old families often had silver repaired or re-used. A lid re-hinged, inherited silver having the coat of arms buffed out or a new arms medallion soldered on, handles from one era attached to the pots from another. All would require re-assaying, but if the silver is staying in the family - no need. It is so common that the jewellers have a name for it - "marriages".

But once an article has been legitimised by being assayed, then there should be no problem. After all styles come and go. Queen Anne style silver has come back twice that I know of.

Regards

Chas

[Tobus]

Thank you Chas, I did not know about the date stamp being optional these days. I personally would require one

Nevertheless would I want , as a purchaser of an antique, fresh hallmarks? In this modern day world of fakery from all corners of this Earth, alarm bells would ring loud and clear and even if I took the decision (and risk) to purchase a legitimate piece, my ancestors may have a torrid time explaining to whoever that a 150 year old antique has fresh hallmarks. No, this bidder would step away as many would, therefore the less bidders in the game the lower the price. Good in the short term for the purchaser, bad all round for the seller of today and years to come.

UK silver buyer's law. Rule I. No hallmarks, its not silver.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 2. Regard antique silver with fresh hallmarks with suspicion.
UK silver buyer's law. Rule 3. If rule one and/or rule two apply, walk away, there is plenty more "good" stuff to be found elsewhere.

UK silver sellers lament. A curse on those that failed to hallmark their wares at the appropriate time!

I'll be honest here - this is the first I've ever heard of this hallmark law. But if I understand it correctly, this has only been a requirement since 1973? If that's the case, then I'm confused by your Rule 2. Wouldn't any antique silver have "fresh" hallmarks? How would anyone be able to ever buy antique silver if one ignored fresh hallmarks?

And besides, if the consumers treat hallmarks with suspicion, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the hallmarks?

Again, since I'm not familiar with this law or its history (and enforcement), I'm curious as to how this has played out in the UK over the last 39 years. If an old Scottish gentleman had an antique sporran stuffed away in his attic, was he legally required to dig it out and get it hallmarked? What happens when he dies in 2012 and his grandson finds it and decides to sell it? Assuming the grandson decides to do it the proper way and have it hallmarked so he can sell it as silver, are all the wise collectors going to treat it with suspicion just because it bears a fresh hallmark?